Kudos to the Ginnie Staff

[Soggy]

honestly how many people actually wear seatbelts? its a law and people still die cause they don't wear them. The ballsy people think " it won't happen to me"

I'm hoping that you are not serious. Most people wear seatbelts and the 'ballsy' ones are Darwinism in action. They will manage to kill themselves some other way, anyhow.

What the rule is saying is, "don't put seatbelts in the car...don't give people the option to use seatbelts...thus they will drive slower." That is idiotic. I mean, really...really...totally...completely...idiotic.

 

[H2Andy]

If you wanna practice with DBL's before Full Cave. How hard is it to ask your instructor to write you a letter.

really.... e-mail, wait three days for letter to arrive, end of story.

after six months, repeat ad nauseum

What the rule is saying is, "don't put seatbelts in the car...don't give people the option to use seatbelts...thus they will drive slower." That is idiotic. I mean, really...really...totally...completely...idiotic.

the rule is more like: when you have a student driver, don't give them
a car with 600 hp engine. limit them to 300 hp unless the instructor
signs them off on the 600 hp engine and require them to go no faster
than 1/3 of maximum speed.

while they are a student....

(key words there, guys... we're not talking aobut full cavers here)

 

[Soggy]

the rule is more like: when you have a student driver, don't give them
a car with 600 hp engine. limit them to 300 hp unless the instructor
signs them off on the 600 hp engine and require them to go no faster
than 1/3 of maximum speed.

Not even close.

A set of doubles provides safety through redundancy. You are removing that safety aspect from someone who doesn't have very much experience and may not know any better. Singles + overheads = dumb

Or do you support single tank wreck penetrations, too?

 

[wheelietaco]

I agree with you H2Andy. I plan on taking my cavern/ intro course this summer. And I will go by the rules. Now if I feel comfortable in doubles, I will dive with an instructor to see what he thinks. If he feels I am okay to dive with doubles then I will, but as far as the Ginnie rule. I will not fight that.

 

[H2Andy]

for a student, it is much safer to be on a single cylinder. ultimately, they
can get in less trouble.

if the single blows, they have their intro.-level buddy. obeying thirds, they'll be fine. and know what to do as they have been trained.

for a student to wear doubles, that student can get into a LOT of trouble in
terms of extra penetration and decompression, which their buddy is not prepared
to deal with either. now you have two people faced with a situation neither one
of them is trained to deal with.

which is safer?

it's not rocket science.

 

[Soggy]

for a student, it is much safer to be on a single cylinder. ultimately, they can get in less trouble.

What's worse? Losing your gas a couple hundred feet back on a single tank and having two freaked out divers (read: increased SAC rate, 1/3rd in, now requiring MORE than 2/3rds to get out) breathing their remaining 2/3rds of a single tank back, hoping it's enough and that nothing else goes wrong or having 4 times that amount of gas available for the exit? This isn't rocket science. Yes, if you are a Darwin candidate, you can violate the 1/6th rule. If your instructor believes you are incapable of following these simple rules, you shouldn't receive a card.

if the single blows, they have their intro.-level buddy. obeying thirds, they'll be fine. and know what to do as they have been trained.

Instead of having 5/6ths of a set of doubles x 2 available? You're not helping your argument here.

for a student to wear doubles, that student can get into a LOT of trouble in
terms of extra penetration and decompression, which their buddy is not prepared
to deal with either. now you have two people faced with a situation neither one
of them is trained to deal with.

Yes, if they are idiots. Idiots shouldn't receive cave cards and if they don't appear to be an idiot and still choose to break the rules, it's not anyone's problem but the idiots in the cave that, despite being told the limits, choose to break the rules.

which is safer?

The doubles.

it's not rocket science

I agree. It's pretty bloody simple.

 

[H2Andy]

hey, Soggy, you have your mind made up. excellent.

you're just pissed off you're not getting your way in the argument. too bad.



again, what's so bloody difficult about getting a written letter from
an instructor to dive 1/6's of doubles?

 

[Soggy]

you're just pissed off you're not getting your way in the argument. too bad.

You're entitled to your own opinion, even if it is wrong.

 

[H2Andy]

:rofl:

 

[wreckchick]

I HAVE THE SOLUTION!!!!!

I've read 90% of the TDS thread, and all of this one and I've got it....

Intro divers can only fill their doubles 1/2 full. That way they still dive thirds, but the penetration is limited and they still have the ability to isolate in case of a failure.

Call the agencies, we have it sussed out.

Rachel