KISS Sidewinder Training

[tbone1004]

@rjack321 neither of those units use cell splitters anymore as they are not required with digital communication platforms.

SCR works just fine in the Mexican caves, it's annoying because it is shallow, but it's still quite effective. Go try it on your couch and watch the ppO2 swing just chilling out. It's not a full dil flush every x-number of breaths though. Say you're doing 10:1, on the 10th breath you make a full exhale through your nose and then inhale against the ADV. Repeat as necessary and this is how SCR's like the RB80 work. You aren't worried about deco inefficiencies at those shallow depths so it is just working as a gas extender but it's quite reasonable for a long haul back.

Both @cerich and I do quite a bit of see-saw caves and a decent bit of "shallow" ones, maybe not Mexico shallow, but certainly ones where EAN32 is not the ideal gas.

 

[cerich]

This just doesn't work. Take your same 32% dil and swim an hour of almost any MX cave and you are in deep trouble unless you know your "breath count" for 35ft too. Even a full flush only gets you up to 0.7 and the volume is less so the drop is more. How much more? Honestly I am not going to bother to test every combination, many of my dives have extensive shallow sections on low ppO2 dil.

volume is volume, not sure I am following what you are saying that volume is less at 35 ft.

.7 is still far away from hypoxic (~.18) Why would anyone dive extensive shallow (lets say shallower than 30ft) with a low PPO2 dil? That makes no sense. If I anticipated extensive shallow with some drops deeper to progress, I would have a dil for the majority (extensive shallow) with a high PPO2 and a dil for the deep sections I would plug in then. You need breathable BO gas for all anticipated depth, may as well have them pluggable eh?

You obviously don't dive serious see-saw caves or shallow ones either. A full flush every 3 breaths lol Adding all that distraction onto an already problematic exit.

It was an hypothetical, and even then, someone shouldn't be diving CCR of any type if they couldn't manage it. SCR isn't a distraction when it is just a practiced skill.

Or you could design and dive a CCR that has cell connections more thoughtfully placed and better splitters in a more hospitable place. For instance the connectors on the Meg are not going to get splashed with nasty condensation like in the sidewinder head - and the isolation board on the Meg is fully sealed and potted. Even the Revo (as much as I rag on them) has better cell management than a sidewinder. Yes those units are both bigger and more robust - which leads me back to my initial post. The sidewinder is not a beginner's CCR

 

[rjack321]

With all of that said, imo, it’s the best tool for the job out of the side mount rebreathers available right now. But, if I could only have one ccr, it wouldn’t be the SW.

Same. Nothing else except the SW was going to work for 300m long sumps hours and hours of SRT into a dry cave. As a generalist CCR I'll bring my Meg (would also use many other units but I only have the one other)

 

[Marie13]

I’ve spent some time trying to figure out what the attraction of the SW is if you’re not just cave diving. Must be the looks cool thing and all the social media attention it gets. I dive with a number of folks regularly who are on the Sidekick and know others with the SW. These were all first CCRs. Everyone had already been diving SM for a number of years.

The SW is a massive PITA to get into if you’re wearing thick undies, from the struggles I’ve witnessed. Fish flopping on land type struggles. Seems much fiddlier as a whole
than regular OC SM, just from watching SW divers.

I can’t comment on performance. I’ve spent a lot of time talking to folks ahead of buying my own unit (next year probably, Spirit), and the SW just seems to be a massive pain for folks who boat dive. I can’t imagine trying to don it on a rocking boat.

 

[rddvet]

I’ve spent some time trying to figure out what the attraction of the SW is if you’re not just cave diving. Must be the looks cool thing and all the social media attention it gets. I dive with a number of folks regularly who are on the Sidekick and know others with the SW. These were all first CCRs. Everyone had already been diving SM for a number of years.

The SW is a massive PITA to get into if you’re wearing thick undies, from the struggles I’ve witnessed. Fish flopping on land type struggles. Seems much fiddlier as a whole
than regular OC SM, just from watching SW divers.

I can’t comment on performance. I’ve spent a lot of time talking to folks ahead of buying my own unit (next year probably, Spirit), and the SW just seems to be a massive pain for folks who boat dive. I can’t imagine trying to don it on a rocking boat.

The main reason is because it's an internet darling. It is one of the only sm units that don't require you to carry less bailout because you can run two bottles like standard sm. Something like the sidekick means you need one bo and a stage to get the same.
But the reality is, it's one of the cheaper brand new units on the market and so it attracts alot of new ccr divers with no experience. The sw really feels like you're just in sm and trims out well, so they're blinded by that and don't see it's shortcomings. The grand majority of people I've talked to that thinks the sw can cure cancer have never dove another unit. So there's just a ton of blind love on the internet. Add to that, instructors like it because it's a good income source. Lots of people want to dive it cause it's cool on fb, so lots of instructors want to hop on the gravy train.
Lastly is the Edd effect. In cave country it's very easy to spot the divers trained by Edd. They all have the same gear and think Edd is the second coming of Jesus. Because Edd loves the sw, his disciples think it can do no wrong. That is not meant to be disrespectful to Edd or his accomplishments. He's an excellent instructor who's done more for the sport than most. But he has quite the band of cult followers. People joke about GUE being a cult, but amongst my friends there's also jokes about the Edd cult followers. Just look for the Pinnacle drysuits, swivels on regs, UWLD lights, and Hollis or Katana rigs. Nothing wrong with any of those items, but there are quite a few people that have them because that's what Edd has and they won't question if there's better options or if there are any negatives to the gear (such as all of the sw issues or the fact that the lining of the pinnacle drysuits means they're very hard to repair).
******note I've done quite a bit of training with Edd

 

[Marie13]

Definitely know what you mean about the fanbois, and I see the Edd cult on FB plenty.

 

[Josh the diver]

Definitely know what you mean about the fanbois, and I see the Edd cult on FB plenty.

does not help that the youtube channel divetalk has been fueling the fanbase.

 

[cerich]

I’ve spent some time trying to figure out what the attraction of the SW is if you’re not just cave diving. Must be the looks cool thing and all the social media attention it gets. I dive with a number of folks regularly who are on the Sidekick and know others with the SW. These were all first CCRs. Everyone had already been diving SM for a number of years.

The SW is a massive PITA to get into if you’re wearing thick undies, from the struggles I’ve witnessed. Fish flopping on land type struggles. Seems much fiddlier as a whole
than regular OC SM, just from watching SW divers.

I can’t comment on performance. I’ve spent a lot of time talking to folks ahead of buying my own unit (next year probably, Spirit), and the SW just seems to be a massive pain for folks who boat dive. I can’t imagine trying to don it on a rocking boat.

Yeah, I don't enjoy not plan my SW on boat.. unless boat is tied up.

That said, I don't see how thick undergarments are any more an issue with SW than with all configs of whatever gear

 

[Superlyte27]

It’s pretty easy for me to get into the sidewinder. Pick it up racing it. Swing it around your back while sliding into the arms. The laying backwards over the table is worthless.

 

[ABK]

does not help that the youtube channel divetalk has been fueling the fanbase.

Gus and woody are waaay too obsessed with Edd and Mike Young. Granted, the men are definitely legends. Nobody disputes that. But there are many other divers in the sport who are just as legendary who would ardently disagree with Edd or Mike on a lot of things.