Most compact/travel-friendly CCR - Sidewinder, Optima CH or ??

Please register or login

Welcome to ScubaBoard, the world's largest scuba diving community. Registration is not required to read the forums, but we encourage you to join. Joining has its benefits and enables you to participate in the discussions.

Benefits of registering include

  • Ability to post and comment on topics and discussions.
  • A Free photo gallery to share your dive photos with the world.
  • You can make this box go away

Joining is quick and easy. Log in or Register now!

i've been using a Triton M3S rebreather for 6 years
very easy to use, assemble and maintain
it's an mccr model, chest mount,
you can use it on sidemount or backmount config.

I use it for my diving trips (see my profile photo in Egypt) up to 120m (400 feets)
a simple piece of hand luggage on a plane

Some instructors in USA
 

Attachments

  • IMG_9899.JPG
    IMG_9899.JPG
    110.9 KB · Views: 23
  • IMG_9901.JPG
    IMG_9901.JPG
    78 KB · Views: 22
Folks, what is the most compact or travel-friendly CCR in the market?

I am looking to get one primarily for photography and since this involves travel to a lot of destinations which arent necessarily set up with full tec shops, I need something that is light and travel friendly. Was looking at the Sidewinder or the Optima - the Optima CH seems interesting as it is (a) light and (b) will integrate well with a regular harness. Anything else i should look at?

TIA!

PS: FWIW - am trimix certified from the late 90s, and have tried out a couple of CCRs in the past (WAY in the past) and was supposed to get certified on the Lungfish last year, so am aware of the general caveats, etc.

So a few, probably senseless, words from a rare species of Choptimus Europus:
I was in a similar boat, my main goals were photography as in silent no bubbles, travel friendly as not a fan of cold European waters, and being able to integrate this with my existing setup ideally as well, to avoid taking double sets of everything if I also want to do some OC diving.
I would say from a photography view I have also preffered eCCR - hands are already taken by the camera, no need to add more workload.

There is certainly a few breathers on the market that could be interesting, all already mentioned here really. From my perspective:
Triton - no eCCR option and seems one needs to DYI a thing or two to get it "better".
Halcyon - well was not an option then, interesting design for sure. Really liking the wireless features. Though if Halcyon then better you have a fat wallet.
xCCR - seems to be a new rage, could be an interesting choice as well nowadays..
Choptima - eCCR, well built, easy serviceable and replaceable parts mostly.
GBM - dunno, not much info about it, last time I've checked was still being developed.
AmEx - don't see the point of buying anything that cannot grow with you, plus once you get all the necessary extras, it will cost way more. Just nope. And if it has no water traps, its a big NOPE. And let's don't forget the social media drama that comes with it.

Dunno about Sidewinder, sidemount breathers seem a very specialist tools for a specialist application in a way. And KISS seems to be a bit controversial looking around the forums. Plus no water traps. And then you need to sidemount stuff, so not just simple recreational OC per se.

Back then it was Triton vs Choptima for me, and the latter won.

Now after a few years, and thinking about the points you are interested in:
1) Travel - damn awesome, that thing packs like a handbag. I usually carry the whole canister/electronics (and whatever I can stuff inside the canister) in hand baggage, and the bag/hoses in the checked but this is because hand baggage allowance absolutely stinks in Europe especially if you are europoor and already carrying another 14kg of camera gear trying to weasel in through the check in... Being so light it is also quite easy to kit up if diving from shore - no need to put all this crap then walk - just get it to the water, kit up there. Similarly in reverse, way easier on your back.

2) Re-usable harness etc - again, amazing. All I needed was a few extra D-rings on the harness (though one could go ghetto) and a one extra hose on the usual reg i.e. to connect it as dill. But basically its the same harness (and reg, now doubling as dil/BO. Less crap to travel with, more flexibility and it also makes it easier since this is pretty much the setup one dived for years already. Makes the whole CCR adventure a bit cheaper too, so more money to be spent on actual diving.
Was totally great when I did a few weeks in Komodo with a recreational outfit that allowed me to dive alongside (the one tech center there stood me out, though guess should have known it is going to end up like this, as I was warned about them. They do have a rep that reaches far....). Brought cylinder/sorb/whip, managed to find welding class oxygen supply and off we went.
Would dive from the same boat as rest of the rec divers, 1-2 morning dives with Choppy, then when oxygen ran low (supply was funny and no booster), just unclip the choppy, change computer to OC and off I go for another dive as OC. That simple. Was not taking much space on the boat neither, since Choppy is so small, so hopefully minimized the being the nuisance levels to other divers too.
Same on a few trips around Amed and Romblon - CCR during the day, then grab the same gear, just change the cylinder, and head for a bonfire OC dive.


3) Camera - there is a bit of a chest clutter up front, but then if approaching something on the bottom, just go head down really, not that big of an issue. Where it shines (at least for me) is the fact that you have every button/valve up front and that you can carry "less" on the sides.
The first because its so easy to adjust/change/react to any situation, no need to look around back, plus less "travel distance" for your hands, since those are already on the camera xD
Secondly - anything shallow is so damn easy, I love the fact that your Dil is also your BO, since all you need is that single cylinder, mounted exactly like you would during rec. Without stage all sides are free (for the camera!) Absolutely loving it, especially that some of the best dives camera wise with CCR I had were in the "under 20m" range actually.
Deeper? Again I feel its easier, watching guys on backmount having that extra side cylinder I really did appreciate having one less - say under 60 I again go with that cylinder on my back plus only one stage (so one side free, teehee!), deeper, twinset and two stages - again one less. Not saying its perfect, but I do like it.

All the above makes it somehow simpler in my mind. And I like simple, its the complex stuff that gets you in trouble.
Bonus points is the ease of assembly/disassembly - while all the backmount folks are still faffing about, I am ready and having another tea or already thinking about brewskis. And that is without cutting any corners.

Another extra point could be DiveCAN - Choptima is fully digital (5 pin) so in theory if Shearwater moves their behind one day (hopefully before we all retire...), this one should be super easy to use with the PyroScience sensors. Technically one can do a conversion now too, though its a bit more involved, maybe one day we can get it out of the box...maybe.


But again - is it a perfect rebreather? Dunno, does one exist? First identify YOUR needs then pick one that suits those best. This will be YOUR perfect rebreather.



If I was US based I’d have considered the choptima in a heartbeat (as a CM) — their capability to use the dry sorb cans (ExtndAir?) is a huge plus
My bias towards the other 2 is they are EU originated (and getting these cans in here is tough and costly) — and very importantly lack of instructors around EU/Egypt where 99% of my diving happens

Closest instructor is in Eilat (Israel), so not too far, seen a few Germs being certified there. However there are also very good AND budget friendly options in Mexico (Playa Del Carmen) and Indonesia (Bali-Amed). And once you factor in the VAT "discount", this pays for your trip and the training ;)


EAC cartridges are neat, but me thinks these are so popular over the pond because in turn the sorb is so expensive there. So it makes sense, when the price is close.
In Europe on the other hand sorb is about 3-4x cheaper and the performance difference is not that significant. Dived Choppy with 812 and 797, works fine with both. And it is really not that hard to pack the sorb well. That said, yeah cartridges are very neat - the ease of changing one is amazing.
 
So a few, probably senseless, words from a rare species of Choptimus Europus:
I was in a similar boat, my main goals were photography as in silent no bubbles, travel friendly as not a fan of cold European waters, and being able to integrate this with my existing setup ideally as well, to avoid taking double sets of everything if I also want to do some OC diving.
I would say from a photography view I have also preffered eCCR - hands are already taken by the camera, no need to add more workload.

There is certainly a few breathers on the market that could be interesting, all already mentioned here really. From my perspective:
Triton - no eCCR option and seems one needs to DYI a thing or two to get it "better".
Halcyon - well was not an option then, interesting design for sure. Really liking the wireless features. Though if Halcyon then better you have a fat wallet.
xCCR - seems to be a new rage, could be an interesting choice as well nowadays..
Choptima - eCCR, well built, easy serviceable and replaceable parts mostly.
GBM - dunno, not much info about it, last time I've checked was still being developed.
AmEx - don't see the point of buying anything that cannot grow with you, plus once you get all the necessary extras, it will cost way more. Just nope. And if it has no water traps, its a big NOPE. And let's don't forget the social media drama that comes with it.

Dunno about Sidewinder, sidemount breathers seem a very specialist tools for a specialist application in a way. And KISS seems to be a bit controversial looking around the forums. Plus no water traps. And then you need to sidemount stuff, so not just simple recreational OC per se.

Back then it was Triton vs Choptima for me, and the latter won.

Now after a few years, and thinking about the points you are interested in:
1) Travel - damn awesome, that thing packs like a handbag. I usually carry the whole canister/electronics (and whatever I can stuff inside the canister) in hand baggage, and the bag/hoses in the checked but this is because hand baggage allowance absolutely stinks in Europe especially if you are europoor and already carrying another 14kg of camera gear... Being so light it is also quite easy to kit up if diving from shore - no need to put all this crap then walk - just get it to the water, kit up there. Similarly in reverse, way easier on your back.

2) Re-usable harness etc - again, amazing. All I needed was a few extra D-rings on the harness (though one could go ghetto) and a one extra hose on the usual reg i.e. to connect it as dill. But basically its the same harness. Less crap to travel with, more flexibility and it also makes it easier since this is pretty much the setup one dived for years already. Makes the whole CCR adventure a bit cheaper too, so more money to be spent on actual diving.
Was totally great when did a few weeks in Komodo with recreational outfit that allowed me to dive alongside (the one tech center there stood me out, though guess should have known it is going to end up like this, as I was warned about them. They do have a rep that reaches far....). Brought cylinder/sorb/whip, managed to find welding class oxygen supply and off we went.
Would dive from the same boat as rest of the rec divers, 1-2 morning dives with Choppy, then when oxygen ran low (supply was funny and no booster), just unclip the choppy, change computer to OC and off I go for another dive as OC. That simple. Was not taking much space on the boat neither, since Choppy is so small, so hopefully minimized the being the nuisance levels to other divers too.
Similarly last trip around Amed - CCR during the day, then grab the same gear, just change the cylinder, and head for a bonfire OC dive.


3) Camera - there is a bit of a chest clutter up front, but then if approaching something on the bottom, just go head down really, not that big of an issue. Where it shines (at least for me) is the fact that you have every button/valve up front and that you can carry "less" on the sides.
The first because its so easy to adjust/change/react to any situation, no need to look around back plus less "travel distance" for your hands, since those are already on the camera xD
Secondly - anything shallow is so damn easy, I love the fact that your Dil is also your BO, since all you need is that single cylinder, mounted exactly like you would during rec. Without stage all sides are free (for the camera!) Absolutley loving it, especially that some of the best dives camera wise I had were in the under 20m range actually.
Deeper? Again I feel its easier, watching guys on backmount having that extra side cylinder I really did appreciate having one less - say under 60 I again go with that cylinder on my back plus only one stage (so one side free, teehee!), deeper, twinset and two stages - again one less. Not saying its perfect, but I do like it.

All the above makes it somehow simpler in my mind. And I like simple, its the complex stuff that gets you in trouble.
Bonus points is the ease of assembly/disassembly - while all the backmount folks are still faffing about, I am ready and having another tea or already thinking about brewskis. And that is without cutting any corners.

Another extra point could be DiveCAN - Choptima is fully digital (5 pin) so in theory if Shearwater moves their behind one day (hopefully before we all retire...), this one should be super easy to use with the PyroScience sensors. Technically one can do a conversion now too, though its a bit more involved, maybe one day we can get it out of the box...maybe.



Closest instructor is in Eilat (Israel), so not too far, seen a few Germs being certified there. However there are also very good AND budget friendly options in Mexico (Playa Del Carmen) and Indonesia (Bali-Amed). And once you factor in the VAT "discount", this pays for your trip and the training ;)


EAC cartridges are neat, but me thinks these are so popular over the pond because in turn the sorb is so expensive there. So it makes sense, when the price is close.
In Europe on the other hand sorb is about 3-4x cheaper and the performance difference is not that significant. Dived Choppy with 812 and 797, works fine with both. And it is really not that hard to pack the sorb well. That said, yeah cartridges are very neat - the ease of changing one is amazing.

"Triton - no eCCR option and seems one needs to DYI a thing or two to get it "better" "
?
nope, no need to customize

and if you like eCCR, this versions is for you :
M3S Neptun
 
"Triton - no eCCR option and seems one needs to DYI a thing or two to get it "better" "
?
nope, no need to customize

and if you like eCCR, this versions is for you :
M3S Neptun

To explain myself better:
-DYI aspect - from a few threads around here and some conversations, seems that few parts are (were?) not so well machined/designed and one ideally swapped those with 3rd party ones, like ones made by TecMe
-eCCR aspect - did not know there is a new one coming, though this technically is advertised as "Neptun" (and not Triton), and as aCCR (adaptive, however that works). But good to see there is a new development, certainly more competition the merrier, this is what drives the innovation :)
 
To explain myself better:
-DYI aspect - from a few threads around here and some conversations, seems that few parts are (were?) not so well machined/designed and one ideally swapped those with 3rd party ones, like ones made by TecMe

nope
some divers does not like the Monox (ppO2 display), like me, and change it for TecMe.
some Monox had battery problems that were exchanged by the manufacturer.
Just as some have problems with Petrel pressure sensors.
This is not the fault of the manufacturer, who assembles products from recognized suppliers.
That's not a "not so well machined".

Triton is the mccr version
Neptun is the accr (eccr adaptative) version with a own development ppO2 display (no more Monox)
 
nope
some divers does not like the Monox (ppO2 display), like me, and change it for TecMe.
some Monox had battery problems that were exchanged by the manufacturer.
Just as some have problems with Petrel pressure sensors.
This is not the fault of the manufacturer, who assembles products from recognized suppliers.
That's not a "not so well machined".

Triton is the mccr version
Neptun is the accr (eccr adaptative) version with a own development ppO2 display (no more Monox)

Computers/Displays is something else, that is sadly one of the things the CCR world I do not like.
In an ideal one, all breathers would use the same connection/underlying system. Then computer wise, Shearwater, OSTC, Ratio, NGC or whatever, pick your choice, add to the breather, done. Sadly it remains in the "keep dreaming" sphere, so you are effectively buying into a computer system as well.
But this is often something that is changeable to some degree and depends on configuration and preferences, hence I did not raise this.
Besides it is Scubaboard - Shearwater or you will be chased by an mob of unwashed villagers with torches and pitchforks :rofl3:

Definitely seen folks changing the cell pot though, and given that this is a "regular" item on the TecMe website, I doubt it was one-off special order.
But as I have said before, maybe this was in the "were" and not "are" category - Triton seems to be quite evolving so things are improving. Who knows, maybe if that aCCR (still don't know how that works :p) was available a few years back I could have considered.
Looking forward to any reviews around here though, always good to see new developments!
 
Dunno about Sidewinder, sidemount breathers seem a very specialist tools for a specialist application in a way. And KISS seems to be a bit controversial looking around the forums. Plus no water traps. And then you need to sidemount stuff, so not just simple recreational OC per se.
Indeed, I went with the SW as I want to solidify sidemount ccr skills as my long term goal is cave ccr and I’m looking into modding it heavily (eg TecMe parts)
I didn’t go with any of the true sidemount units as they have a huge disadvantage at WoB aspects
Ofc nothing is set in stone and with time I plan to try as many units as possible; each shines in a specialized application

Closest instructor is in Eilat (Israel),
Besides being far away — as an Egyptian it would be very problematic on different fronts for me to get rebreather training there

Neptun is the accr (eccr adaptative)
Is it actually out? All we have is that demo from the Paris expo
It does seem to add clutter; as the solenoid system is in a separate tube (like a light canister) that get fixed on the hip (in their demo)

Sadly it remains in the "keep dreaming" sphere, so you are effectively buying into a computer system as well
Very sad indeed; SW throws the onus on manufacturers to manage the system but reserve the development ownership of the actual firmware that makes it run
Kinda ruins the beauty of a CAN based architecture and blocks real collaborative development and cross comparability (even just among various shearwater monitors/controllers)
 
Indeed, I went with the SW as I want to solidify sidemount ccr skills as my long term goal is cave ccr and I’m looking into modding it heavily (eg TecMe parts)
I didn’t go with any of the true sidemount units as they have a huge disadvantage at WoB aspects
Ofc nothing is set in stone and with time I plan to try as many units as possible; each shines in a specialized application

(...)

I am sure you've seen it but here is what happens when Sidewinder meets TecMe:
 
I am sure you've seen it but here is what happens when Sidewinder meets TecMe:
It becomes a Fathom Gemini 😅

I wanna add the tecme water traps, considering bigger sorb canisters, and experiment with a solenoid (revo style) setup
 
Interesting that that M3S military O2 version can be back mounted. That would make for a very interesting configuration with a SM bcd and bail out/dil. Removes the chest clutter while putting the lungs in a similar position to the SW.
 

Back
Top Bottom