KISS Sidewinder Training

[Black Cat]

Looking at getting certified on the Sidewinder. I cave dive in sidemount configuration so the ultimate goal would be to get into the cave environment on the Sidewinder. I've got zero CCR experience so I need to start from the ground up in the OW environment. Looking for suggestions on where/who to do the initial training with. Anywhere in the USA, Caribbean and Mexico is fair game. I'm looking to get certified through either TDI or IANTD as I meet the requirements for these agencies. If I had to go PADI I'd need to get my Rescue Diver cert. Which I'd be willing to do if there was a great PADI instructor that couldn't do TDI/IANTD.

 

[tbone1004]

Call Cave Adventurers and get on Edd's schedule. No one better on that rig than he is.

 

[rjack321]

Looking at getting certified on the Sidewinder. I cave dive in sidemount configuration so the ultimate goal would be to get into the cave environment on the Sidewinder. I've got zero CCR experience so I need to start from the ground up in the OW environment. Looking for suggestions on where/who to do the initial training with. Anywhere in the USA, Caribbean and Mexico is fair game. I'm looking to get certified through either TDI or IANTD as I meet the requirements for these agencies. If I had to go PADI I'd need to get my Rescue Diver cert. Which I'd be willing to do if there was a great PADI instructor that couldn't do TDI/IANTD.

You're not going to like this but get a backmount CCR. I have a sidewinder, its a terrible first unit.

 

[rddvet]

Best options IMO opinion are Edd at cave adventurers, Protec in Mexico, or James at hidden worlds.

But as someone who trained on the sw, I fully agree with rjack. The sw has some inherent issues that can actually be very serious. It really isn’t meant to be a first time ccr in many of our minds. It’s a unit that can get you in trouble.
Problem is it’s a social media darling. Tons of first time ccr divers are getting certified on it and then go spout on the internet how awesome it is. They don’t have enough ccr experience to spot the problems, so of course it is perfect to them. Sadly the instructors also don’t like to explain all of this to their students because either they’re in love with the unit or don’t want to lose business.

If you do decide to go sw, I would highly suggest talking to your instructor about secondary pO2 monitors, the cons of the crappy adv, difficulty in easily setting up with a bov, and the pros and cons (lots of cons) of an in-line oxygen shutoff. The stock sw is lacking some important safety features. Most importantly is no secondary p02 monitor. So you get lazy or distracted 5000 feet in a cave or in the hull of a wreck, and you go to sleep and don’t wake up.

 

[grantctobin]

Best options IMO opinion are Edd at cave adventurers, Protec in Mexico, or James at hidden worlds.

But as someone who trained on the sw, I fully agree with rjack. The sw has some inherent issues that can actually be very serious. It really isn’t meant to be a first time ccr in many of our minds. It’s a unit that can get you in trouble.
Problem is it’s a social media darling. Tons of first time ccr divers are getting certified on it and then go spout on the internet how awesome it is. They don’t have enough ccr experience to spot the problems, so of course it is perfect to them. Sadly the instructors also don’t like to explain all of this to their students because either they’re in love with the unit or don’t want to lose business.

If you do decide to go sw, I would highly suggest talking to your instructor about secondary pO2 monitors, the cons of the crappy adv, difficulty in easily setting up with a bov, and the pros and cons (lots of cons) of an in-line oxygen shutoff. The stock sw is lacking some important safety features. Most importantly is no secondary p02 monitor. So you get lazy or distracted 5000 feet in a cave or in the hull of a wreck, and you go to sleep and don’t wake up.

Thirded. If you search for “sidewinder” on SB, you’ll find fervent debate and more points made by people trained on, or actively diving in it.

I actually can’t think of (m)any reputable instructors I would recommend that dive the unit stock. It is great at a couple very specific use cases, and I abuse mine heavily, but the cans and lung are the only thing stock on mine, and I still don’t think it is a great first unit for most people.

 

[cerich]

Best options IMO opinion are Edd at cave adventurers, Protec in Mexico, or James at hidden worlds.

But as someone who trained on the sw, I fully agree with rjack. The sw has some inherent issues that can actually be very serious. It really isn’t meant to be a first time ccr in many of our minds. It’s a unit that can get you in trouble.
Problem is it’s a social media darling. Tons of first time ccr divers are getting certified on it and then go spout on the internet how awesome it is. They don’t have enough ccr experience to spot the problems, so of course it is perfect to them. Sadly the instructors also don’t like to explain all of this to their students because either they’re in love with the unit or don’t want to lose business.

If you do decide to go sw, I would highly suggest talking to your instructor about secondary pO2 monitors, the cons of the crappy adv, difficulty in easily setting up with a bov, and the pros and cons (lots of cons) of an in-line oxygen shutoff. The stock sw is lacking some important safety features. Most importantly is no secondary p02 monitor. So you get lazy or distracted 5000 feet in a cave or in the hull of a wreck, and you go to sleep and don’t wake up.

there is no "stock software" on a sidewinder. You choose what computer to run. You can have 20 PO2 displays, if you get lazy and don't look at them it is the same problem. Having 2 isn't the fix, not getting complacent is.

 

[davehicks]

If you cant monitor your PPO2 due to laziness or distraction you have no business using any brand or model of ccr. At least with an mCCR the O2 will keep flowing until the tank is empty. This is a problem i have with eCCR units. The divers acclimate to expecting a computer and other electronics to take on responsibility for their safety.

 

[Superlyte27]

I have about 2000 hours of CCR, and probably 300 of that is on the SW. I'm an instructor on all of the optimas, liberties and sidewinder.

A few years ago I was diving the new section of Ginnie and got in a very tight and silty spot that took way too much focus and way too much scraping. I had only a shearwater wrist unit, and my left arm was wedged for what seemed like a solid minute or two. I eventually pulled myself through and got free, but when I was finally able to look at my PPO2 it was at a .37. I sold the unit the next day and bought a SW with a NERD.

I agree with the above posters. The SW is a great unit. But it's not the best first unit. Good luck in whatever you decide, but if you buy one, spend the extra money and get the nerd. It just might save your life.

Flame away.

 

[davehicks]

A few years ago I was diving the new section of Ginnie and got in a very tight and silty spot that took way too much focus and way too much scraping. I had only a shearwater wrist unit, and my left arm was wedged for what seemed like a solid minute or two. I eventually pulled myself through and got free, but when I was finally able to look at my PPO2 it was at a .37. I sold the unit the next day and bought a SW with a NERD.


Flame away.

What I am reading is that your PPO2 dropped to a totally safe level after an extended exertion and you were then able to restore it to an optimal level after an interval of a couple of minutes.

 

[rddvet]

there is no "stock software" on a sidewinder. You choose what computer to run. You can have 20 PO2 displays, if you get lazy and don't look at them it is the same problem. Having 2 isn't the fix, not getting complacent is.

The unit comes with a single p02 monitor as stock. To me that is not good enough. That is why I told him to discuss it with his instructors. Some instructors are cool with a single p02 monitor. Some aren't. I have a hud on my unit and love it because I rarely have to look at my computer. It's never a distraction. Until you do something dumb and it blinks its ass off to save your life.
I 100% agree not being complacent is the solution. Unfortunately that trait is not something we see in every ccr diver. If nobody ever got lazy we wouldn't have half the fatalities we do. Look at the Ginnie death.