Keys Drive and Dive thoughts?

[ScubaSteve1962]

And is a guide pointing out where ill-equipped and ill-trained divers can penetrate a wreck into a overhead environment at serious depth (90+ feet) really a good thing?

This is where personal responsibility comes into play, if you know you're not trained, don't do it. I'm not a fan of penetrating wrecks or swim troughs I let the guide know I will stay on top and follow the bubbles, never had a problem with it. And I'm usually not the only one.

 

[T.C.]

that's the main reason I look for guided dives, less likely to be canceled.

Never had a guide- never been cancelled in the Keys.

So aren't you doing the same thing??

...aren't I doing the same....What??? Your statement makes no sense. If you're going to criticize, at least be clear in that.

Had to jump on this one. don't ever want anyone to swap out my gear, yes they have done it for me. I left my gear on the boat, and when I got back it was set up. I politily asked them not to do that again, I like making sure everything is done myself. Just like people get dependent on guides, people get dependent on the crew setting up their gear, and don't know how to do it.

I don't want them doing it either; but on QDS they will, because they also carry your gear to and from you at the transom. By the time you're back on the boat, after they take your gear, they've usually swapped it out. Some people appreciate it- Doesn't mean I agree with it or utilize it.





---------- Post added July 31st, 2014 at 07:43 AM ----------

This is where personal responsibility comes into play, if you know you're not trained, don't do it. I'm not a fan of penetrating wrecks or swim troughs I let the guide know I will stay on top and follow the bubbles, never had a problem with it. And I'm usually not the only one.

It is; and it's why I don't do "swimthroughs". But when people follow the guide, they let them assume the role of leader, and abrogate their sense of personal responsibility. A good guide shouldn't even offer the temptation to get into a dangerous situation.

 

[ScubaSteve1962]

Never had a guide- never been cancelled in the Keys.



...aren't I doing the same....What??? Your statement makes no sense. If you're going to criticize, at least be clear in that.


I don't want them doing it either; but on QDS they will, because they also carry your gear to and from you at the transom. By the time you're back on the boat, after they take your gear, they've usually swapped it out. Some people appreciate it- Doesn't mean I agree with it or utilize it.





OP, how did your trip go?

---------- Post added July 31st, 2014 at 07:43 AM ----------


It is; and it's why I don't do "swimthroughs". But when people follow the guide, they let them assume the role of leader, and abrogate their sense of personal responsibility. A good guide shouldn't even offer the temptation to get into a dangerous situation.

Once again personal responsibility.

You come on as part of the QDS fan club like they are the best op in the world (doing the same thing you accuse people of doing for rainbow reef) but bash the people who like rainbow reef. We all have different likes for different reasons. but you can't seem to respect that. There are some ops I would never dive with, but I'm not going to bash them or belittle those that do like them for what ever reason.

 

[T.C.]

Once again personal responsibility.

You come on as part of the QDS fan club like they are the best op in the world (doing the same thing you accuse people of doing for rainbow reef) but bash the people who like rainbow reef. We all have different likes for different reasons. but you can't seem to respect that. There are some ops I would never dive with, but I'm not going to bash them or belittle those that do like them for what ever reason.

I'm providing an alternative voice; otherwise people would think Rainbow is the only operation in the Keys. I'm not plugging for them the same way that the Rainbow Fanboy Club does. They ignore the failings of Rainbow (large crowds, limited dive sites) to plug the "free" DM- who isn't free- the cost is just built in. For the record; I have yet to hear any negative comments about QDS. People like them because they're the only one they've used.

Pointing out the failings of an op and providing alternatives is not belittling anyone, nor is it disrespectful. Don't play that silly card; you know it's not true and you're better than that.

QDS does many things that are unique; that other shops don't offer. Rainbow has absolutely NOTHING special about it- except cookies; but I outgrew that in grade school. People should look around and find the best fit- not go with the loudest promoted shop. That's my point.

 

[sportxlh]

Do they do this for all 30+ divers on their boats; everytime?

The boat I was on had two in-water guides and one deck hand. There were 12 divers on one trip and about 20 on the other. The RR folks could have easily switched everyone's gear on both trips. I didn't pay attention so couldn't really tell you how many divers switched their own gear vs. allowing RR crew to swap the gear.

I've often seen carrying gear offered; the real reason is that the crew doesn't want someone slipping when carrying their gear onto their boat.

You've indicated that QDS carrying gear is a benefit, but they do it for similar reaons as RR along with the fact their front parking lot by the shop entrance is a little bit of a hike to the boats and carrying all one's gear and tanks would be a PITA from the parking lot. I like QDS but they offer the service for similar reasons as other shops.

It was a report we had a few months back. I am not commenting on how credible it was, but it was reported. It's too easy to get that one DM (or one in training) who gets on a powertrip. I've seen it happen before.

Which dive op in the Keys has crew that are on powertrips? You often question statements people make on SB that were based on their direct observation. I'm going to throw the yellow flag on this statement since I question the veracity. If you're talking about DM behavior in the Panhandle or somewhere else, that has nothing to do with Keys operators.

 

[JahJahwarrior]

I've never felt that rainbow reef is the most promoted shop in the keys. I hear far more people talking about horizon divers and ocean divers.

But I especially appreciate how t.c. can make something so mundane, in a place with more boats per mile than anywhere else in the world, seem like it's so incredibly important and worth so much of his time to nitpick apart line by line people who like an operation he doesn't like, and then constantly give them pep talks to get them to keep arguing with him. Takes a lot of time and dedication and shows how strongly he feels about QDS.

Wouldn't it be easier to buy a domain such as "Iloveqds.com" and put all the reasons why it's better than all the other tens of boats, and just put it in your signature?

I am glad you found an operation you like but the only shop I won't go back to in key largo is the one that doesn't do air fills. haven't ever really had such a bad experience that I thought my money was wasted or that others were having more fun on another boat than I.

 

[ScubaSteve1962]

I'm providing an alternative voice; otherwise people would think Rainbow is the only operation in the Keys. I'm not plugging for them the same way that the Rainbow Fanboy Club does. They ignore the failings of Rainbow (large crowds, limited dive sites) to plug the "free" DM- who isn't free- the cost is just built in. For the record; I have yet to hear any negative comments about QDS. People like them because they're the only one they've used.

Pointing out the failings of an op and providing alternatives is not belittling anyone, nor is it disrespectful. Don't play that silly card; you know it's not true and you're better than that.

QDS does many things that are unique; that other shops don't offer. Rainbow has absolutely NOTHING special about it- except cookies; but I outgrew that in grade school. People should look around and find the best fit- not go with the loudest promoted shop. That's my point.

Once again those are failings that you see, others don't have problem with the things you point out. Nobody is twisting the OPs arm as to which dive op he should choose. If you look at your first post, you didn't start by giving a suggestion on a dive op, you started by bashing the previous post. If I was going to the keys for the first time and looked at this thread you would think RR and QDS are the only choices in Key largo. Like I've said in previous threads there are enough ops there that it gives everyone choices. If every diver went to QDS just how long do you think it would take before you would have the same complaints about them??

And as far as the dive guide being free, If I come to QDS by myself, and for what ever reason there is no one for me to dive with, (it happens ) I would have to pay $85 for myself, and what ever price the dive guide charges. Wheras when I go to RR I pay $80 and the guide is there (for most this equates to free) if for what ever reason there is no one for me to buddy up with(but usually with the "large crowds" it doesn't happen) . Now while this may have never happened to you, it does happen.

What does QDS offer that's so unique? That not another dive op in the keys offers.

Also my question to you, QDS carries a maximum of 18 divers on 3 boats. what are those 30+ divers supposed to do, wait until there is an opening or go with another dive op. Or is QDS not full, and you're trying to drum up some business for them? Because QDS couldn't possibly accommodate all the divers that happen to be in Key Largo on any giving day.

 

[AdivingBel]

A guide who advocates a diver without technical training and equipment entering an overhead environment and penetrating a wreck at significant depths is not a benefit. I've seen this before; people think that if they see "daylight" on the other side, it's not really penetration or an overhead environment. They are wrong.

It is still a wreck penetration; best left to trained and equipped technical divers. It's the same thinking that compels people to swim into a cave; thinking that if they can see the entrance, they'll be ok. There are many things that can go wrong on a simple "swimthrough" that a diver with a single AL80 is not prepared to handle. All it takes is one bad fin kick from the guy in front of you on the bridge of the Spiegal Grove and you're silted out in zero viz, inside a wreck, at 80 feet...with no idea which way to go, and no direct ascent to the surface.

Wow, sure is nice the "powers that be" sunk all those big hulking wrecks with the big swimthrough cutouts just for the tec and wreck divers. And all those boats that pull up to them are just full of tec and wreck divers. Why do you insist that because someone chooses to hire a guide that their skills are inadequate? I'm sure there are plenty of guides out there that would be surprised to know only s hire them. Look it's great to voice an opinion, and you make some valid points, but some of the stuff you're pointing out just doesn't jive with reality, IMO. All good, it's a big ocean.

 

[Capt Jim Wyatt]

Take a look at Ocean Divers

and

Florida Keys Technical Diving

 

[deeper thoughts]

So after a VERY successful dive trip to Cozumel with my wife, we have decided to do a drive and dive to the keys, leaving from Texas. We won't start diving till we get to the keys.
i know here is a sticky with Dive Shops and Resorts.
Any thoughts on must do dives, quality yet reasonably priced places to stay. Plan on Key Largo all the way down to Key West. Go 5-6 days of diving.
thanks for any thoughts. My wife is very money minded so cheaper the better.

One good way to check out a dive op here in the Keys is to search for reviews on this board.

More then likely you will find that the majority of divers have had and continue to have good experiences with Rainbow reef, Ocean Divers, Conch Republic and Florida Keys dive center to name a few