Keys Drive and Dive thoughts?

[T.C.]

Yes...people have become reliant on a guide leading them around like sheep underwater. It is not necessary in the Keys. As I said; navigation is simple; pop up every so often to check on the boat. A guide is a crutch in the Keys, nothing more; and I don't recall the OP asking for a guide either.

$640 for 10 trips. About average; and remember; he won't be in Key Largo long enough to dive 20 times there. So he'll pay considerably more.

I paid $500.85, with tax, and fills included, for 14 dives with QDS on my last trip (4-7 July). $3 more a dive than you; and we hit better sites, and never had more than 6 divers on the boat, plus better service. (does your crew bring you your gear, and swap it for you?) Just like I said; Rainbow costs as much as any other operation.

Rainbow has a group that sings their praises...but for what??? They don't do ANYTHING special. Good service is not special; that's expected and mandatory. If a shop gave me poor service, I'd leave. There is nothing special about them; while there are much better shops out there- and that's my point; there are better shops than Rainbow and the other cattleboats.

 

[sportxlh]

Yes...people have become reliant on a guide leading them around like sheep underwater. It is not necessary in the Keys....

I tend to agree that guides are not needed on the shallow dives in the Keys, but a lot of people like 'em. That's their choice and if it's more enjoyable experience for them, so be it. Guides on the deeper dives are also not needed in my view but can be helpful since an experienced guide can point out swim-throughs that might be missed easily or point out hidden critters that might not be easy to spot. If someone really wants a guide, for whatever reason, a six pack boat or an operator with big boats that doesn't provide guides is not the right answer for them.

.....does your crew bring you your gear, and swap it for you?.....

Rainbow's crew offered to carry all my gear (3 tanks and a pony bottle and all my other dive stuff) from the trunk of my car to the boat. I declined the offer, but it was made. The crew also offered to swap over my BC during the SI, but I again declined since I don't like people touching my gear. So, they do offer this extra little service if someone wants it.

....We've heard reports that they try to force the divers to stay together as a group .....

False, false, false.... I've only done 4 dives with Rainbow Reef but they did not force, or try to force, my buddy and I to follow the guide(s). They were completely cool with us doing our own thing on all 4 dives.

 

[drrich2]

Rainbow Reef staff offered to switch my tank out for me. I took my own gear to the boat at the start of the day, back home at the end of it.

A lot of destinations, such as Cozumel that the original poster has enjoyed, have dive guides as a standard offering. I suspect many divers get used to them, unconsciously expect them, and could be rudely surprised to show up for a charter boat trip and find out none is automatically included. There are some destinations where guides are unusual unless hired by special arrangement; I'm told California charter boats are often this way.

As for being reliant on guides, this differs little from people being reliant on taxi drivers or tour operators in strange cities. It wasn't so many decades back, before GPS became mainstream, that some people were good at using maps, some people were not, and the former were not always complimentary of the latter. I've noticed a similar phenomenon on ScubaBoard where the issue of independent navigation vs. following guides is concerned. There are a lot of people who like guided dives.

To quickly address some other points, providing guides at no extra cost is special for some of us, good service is not universal (though common in Key Largo), and the low cost/dive and, at least out of Nashville low air fare help make Key Largo one of the most budget friendly dive destinations for a lot of U.S. based folks. Especially since some can get in 4 dives/day; I haven't seen that option in many Caribbean destination reports.

Richard.

 

[T.C.]

I tend to agree that guides are not needed on the shallow dives in the Keys, but a lot of people like 'em. That's their choice and if it's more enjoyable experience for them, so be it. Guides on the deeper dives are also not needed in my view but can be helpful since an experienced guide can point out swim-throughs that might be missed easily or point out hidden critters that might not be easy to spot. If someone really wants a guide, for whatever reason, a six pack boat or an operator with big boats that doesn't provide guides is not the right answer for them.

But this is often mentioned as the great thing about Rainbow...when it's not. It's not needed, and it's not free (they could bring down the cost by not providing them). As I pointed out; we don't know if a guide is something the OP is after...or even wants hanging around them.

And is a guide pointing out where ill-equipped and ill-trained divers can penetrate a wreck into a overhead environment at serious depth (90+ feet) really a good thing?

Rainbow Reef staff offered to switch my tank out for me. I took my own gear to the boat at the start of the day, back home at the end of it.

Rainbow's crew offered to carry all my gear (3 tanks and a pony bottle and all my other dive stuff) from the trunk of my car to the boat. I declined the offer, but it was made. The crew also offered to swap over my BC during the SI, but I again declined since I don't like people touching my gear. So, they do offer this extra little service if someone wants it.

Do they do this for all 30+ divers on their boats; everytime?

I've often seen carrying gear offered; the real reason is that the crew doesn't want someone slipping when carrying their gear onto their boat.

False, false, false.... I've only done 4 dives with Rainbow Reef but they did not force, or try to force, my buddy and I to follow the guide(s). They were completely cool with us doing our own thing on all 4 dives.

It was a report we had a few months back. I am not commenting on how credible it was, but it was reported. It's too easy to get that one DM (or one in training) who gets on a powertrip. I've seen it happen before.

As for being reliant on guides, this differs little from people being reliant on taxi drivers or tour operators in strange cities.

Not really- in many strange cities, you're not licensed to drive there; nor do you understand the fundamental law and cultural differences. Our diving certification is valid anywhere, and the laws and physics of diving do not change.

But it is at an additional (built-in) cost. These people, and their time, their professional insurance, gear, tank fills, and all the other assorted expenses, are not free. They build these costs in so like it or not, you pay for the guide.

To quickly address some other points, providing guides at no extra cost is special for some of us, good service is not universal (though common in Key Largo), and the low cost/dive and, at least out of Nashville low air fare help make Key Largo one of the most budget friendly dive destinations for a lot of U.S. based folks.

But it is at an additional (built-in) cost. These people, and their time, their professional insurance, gear, tank fills, and all the other assorted expenses, are not free. They build these costs in so like it or not, you pay for the guide.

The cost for Rainbow is comparable; not superior, and achieved by crowding on the divers, thus maximizing profit.

Good service is an expectation; not a plus. It's like the boat not sinking; you expect that- it isn't a plus when you get back to the dock on the same craft you left.

 

[AdivingBel]

And is a guide pointing out where ill-equipped and ill-trained divers can penetrate a wreck into a overhead environment at serious depth (90+ feet) really a good thing?

Many excellent divers don't have the time to do multiple tanks on a wreck during their dive travels. Hiring a guide to show them the highlights including interesting swim-throughs so they can make the most of their dive experience has nothing to do with their dive skills, IMO.

 

[Max Speed]

I liked Rainbow Reef. They have cookies. If I wanted I did my own thing. If I wanted I could follow one of their groups. Or both. I was happy to have their help getting my tanks on and off the boat. They would have helped with my other gear if I wanted.

The surface intervals were shorter than I am used to because they run two to three trips a day. Once there was a bit of a cluster with a crowd on the up line and the ladder. Other times no problem.

The boat was roomy and stable.

They were quick to fill our tanks which included some doubles as long as we provided DIN inserts because most of their whips are yoke.

They are not good for HP fills because the compressor is set for 3000 to keep it simple. They are not good for Nitrox blends but I think they may have banked. We just went up the street for those fills.

I would enjoy diving with them again.

 

[kwinter]

I hope your plan to go all the way to Key West was not made just for the diving. KW diving is decent and the Vandenberg is a great wreck dive, but it's a long way to go for not much reward. The diving around Largo and Islamorada is outstanding. I enjoyed diving in Key West, but I wouldn't make the drive again just for the diving.

 

[Max Speed]

As I said; navigation is simple; pop up every so often to check on the boat. .

A good guide could probably help you run a safer profile...

 

[ScubaSteve1962]

I stumbled upon them (Captain Hook's) when I was diving the middle/lower Keys w/o a buddy during the low season. I kept getting cancelled because I was the only diver on the boat. I'm not that big on guided dives, but if you're on your own, it's nice to know you're not dependent on another diver being booked. Now that the wife is certified, I don't have that problem. Have fun...

that's the main reason I look for guided dives, less likely to be canceled.

Icculus, there's the problem with asking for dive ops in the Keys. You get overrun with the Rainbow Reef fanboy club; who think it's the greatest dive op on Earth.

It's not.

It's crowded, costs as much as any other operation, and has no redeeming qualities. We've heard reports that they try to force the divers to stay together as a group (which were shouted down by their fan club). There is nothing that Rainbow, or any of the other cattleboat operations, have that the other operations in the Keys offers. NOTHING.

You'll hear them claim the "free" divemaster (the price is just built into the cost of the boat ride), but you really don't need a guide in the Keys. Most dives are so shallow that you can surface to check your position.

Go with one of the smaller operations; you'll definitely be happier.

So aren't you doing the same thing??

I heard the world was going to end in 2012!!!!

I knew when I saw the OPs original question where this was going to end up. He ask for suggestions and everyone gave him their thoughts, no bashing of any dive ops, it's up to him who he wants to go with.

---------- Post added July 31st, 2014 at 07:33 AM ----------

(does your crew bring you your gear, and swap it for you?) Just like I said; Rainbow costs as much as any other operation.

Had to jump on this one. don't ever want anyone to swap out my gear, yes they have done it for me. I left my gear on the boat, and when I got back it was set up. I politily asked them not to do that again, I like making sure everything is done myself. Just like people get dependent on guides, people get dependent on the crew setting up their gear, and don't know how to do it.

 

[T.C.]

A good guide could probably help you run a safer profile...

How is making a controlled ascent from 20 feet once or twice a dive not safe? Instructors do so several times a dive, and considerably faster than a slow ascent, when teaching CESA.

And if you're really worried about that; the solution is to improve your navigation; not hire a guide. The Keys are a great place to practice navigation because if you mess up, you can surface and correct yourself.

I was happy to have their help getting my tanks on and off the boat. They would have helped with my other gear if I wanted.

Gear on and off the boat is pretty standard- the crew doesn't want you slipping with that heavy load as you step onto a moving platform. It's simple risk mitigation on their part.

IThey were quick to fill our tanks which included some doubles

They filled your tanks? Doesn't every shop?

IOnce there was a bit of a cluster with a crowd on the up line and the ladder.

This is what I commonly observe if my boat is moored next to one of theirs, or the other cattleboat operations.

we provided DIN inserts because most of their whips are yoke. They are not good for HP fills because the compressor is set for 3000 to keep it simple. They are not good for Nitrox blends but I think they may have banked. We just went up the street for those fills.

But they don't have something as simple as a DIN insert on hand and they also shorted you on your fills and the oxygen in those fills. Good to know. Most quality operations should provide you what you paid for (full tanks, regardless of size) and correct O2 blend- as well as having a common piece of gear like an insert.

Did the cookie make up for that?

Many excellent divers don't have the time to do multiple tanks on a wreck during their dive travels. Hiring a guide to show them the highlights including interesting swim-throughs so they can make the most of their dive experience has nothing to do with their dive skills, IMO.

A guide who advocates a diver without technical training and equipment entering an overhead environment and penetrating a wreck at significant depths is not a benefit. I've seen this before; people think that if they see "daylight" on the other side, it's not really penetration or an overhead environment. They are wrong.

It is still a wreck penetration; best left to trained and equipped technical divers. It's the same thinking that compels people to swim into a cave; thinking that if they can see the entrance, they'll be ok. There are many things that can go wrong on a simple "swimthrough" that a diver with a single AL80 is not prepared to handle. All it takes is one bad fin kick from the guy in front of you on the bridge of the Spiegal Grove and you're silted out in zero viz, inside a wreck, at 80 feet...with no idea which way to go, and no direct ascent to the surface.