Keep it, or ask for return?

[Bob DBF]

I'm curious about the rationale for these suggestions, as I've seen this sort of thing come up before and I don't have a good familiarity with what drives the decision.

1.) Is the low pressure inflator hose being a couple inches longer than necessary (if it is, I can't judge it) a hassle? Would it be worth buying a shorter one?

2.) I've often seen people advise the 'single piece of webbing' route, but I thought that was because it's cheaper than the deluxe harnesses, and that if anything happened (say, a strap was somehow cut or so damaged you wanted to replace it), you had to rethread the whole thing.

Looking at that photo, I take it he's already got one of the deluxe (by whatever name) harnesses. Does a single piece of webbing still have some sort of advantage?

3.) The criticism of unnecessary D-rings is one I've heard elsewhere before. They are fairly small and unobstrusive, and I'm guessing the idea is to make sure there're enough (the idea of partially unthreading a harness to add one later is off-putting to me, at least). It is just a matter of taste, or are they seen as problematic? Any thoughts on how many D-rings ought to put on a system?

I've been wondering about some of these things, based on what I've read in other threads, so when you brought it up, I figured this would be a good time to ask somebody.

Well if you start with with whatever is best for you, it's easier to understand someone else's answers, they are answering what they have found best. I like a single piece webbing because it's simple, cheap, and it's easy for me to change because I've done it. Others can have issues, or just like something else, your rig, your choice.

As for D-rings, put them where you want them. Eventually you wind up with as many as you want, where you want. I'm for wearing the rig the way you want it no matter what I think.

 

[happy-diver]

 

[Bob DBF]

Yeah, if you don't know your rig, you have bigger issues than how many D -rings you have.

 

[Nemrod]

The problem with the pre-made harness assemblies with the multiple clips and D-rings is that they are not based on the users experience or needs but some generic and misguided idea that more is better, softer (padding and soft webbing) is better, plastic clips make it easy to off and on or whatever. What would one do with six D-rings on the shoulder harness straps alone? What need or experience of the end user pushes that? And it is a lot easier to add, remove or relocate D-rings or accessories on a one piece webbing than on a pre-sewn assembly.

James

 

[Still Kicking]

The problem with the pre-made harness assemblies with the multiple clips and D-rings is that they are not based on the users experience or needs but some generic and misguided idea that more is better, softer (padding and soft webbing) is better, plastic clips make it easy to off and on or whatever.

Exactly.

The early developers of the Hogarthian system had the complete opposite philosophy -- pare down the rig to its minimum useful features and eliminate weak points wherever possible. This was not a marketing department focus group but a group of hardcore cave divers who based decisions on what worked for them in the real world.

Their mindset continues to have merit and attracts divers who understand its motivation: Minimalism based on needs and real world experience.

It's ironic that many manufacturers have taken the minimalist backplate and wing as a starting point and reintroduced all those unnecessary elements that had been eliminated and now market their systems to people who are attracted by the philosophy of streamlining.

None of these features are inherently dangerous of course and many people reason that easier is better (quick adjust releases, for example, especially for those with mobility issues) but you can't argue that plastic clips, redundant D rings, foam padding etc. are necessary, more streamlined or Hogarthian.

 

[happy-diver]

A bit shemp without the preceeding three pages

I grab my left strap and hoses wrestle my arm in and don't look at any of my stuff again
I just get dressed looking straight ahead, taking in the scenery, and what a scenery it is
Everything by feel, it works great when the boats a rockin, and the tum tums a burpsin

 

[stuartv]

I'm curious about the rationale for these suggestions, as I've seen this sort of thing come up before and I don't have a good familiarity with what drives the decision.

1.) Is the low pressure inflator hose being a couple inches longer than necessary (if it is, I can't judge it) a hassle? Would it be worth buying a shorter one?

2.) I've often seen people advise the 'single piece of webbing' route, but I thought that was because it's cheaper than the deluxe harnesses, and that if anything happened (say, a strap was somehow cut or so damaged you wanted to replace it), you had to rethread the whole thing.

Looking at that photo, I take it he's already got one of the deluxe (by whatever name) harnesses. Does a single piece of webbing still have some sort of advantage?

3.) The criticism of unnecessary D-rings is one I've heard elsewhere before. They are fairly small and unobstrusive, and I'm guessing the idea is to make sure there're enough (the idea of partially unthreading a harness to add one later is off-putting to me, at least). It is just a matter of taste, or are they seen as problematic? Any thoughts on how many D-rings ought to put on a system?

I've been wondering about some of these things, based on what I've read in other threads, so when you brought it up, I figured this would be a good time to ask somebody.

Yes, the LP hose being too long can be a minor pain in the neck.

A single piece of webbing for the harness is not preferred because it's cheaper. At least, not by me. If a deluxe harness were better, that is what I would have. My rEvo (CCR) came with a deluxe harness as standard. I ditched that and replaced it with a single piece of continuous webbing. The only thing I have padding on is a neoprene sleeve on the crotch strap, to help protect my suit's crotch area from the edge of the stiff webbing.

Once the single piece of webbing it setup right, there is nothing to break and no adjustments needed. If it's setup right, it's also easy to get in and out of. Yes, if you want to add or remove D-rings or tri-slides, you do potentially have to unthread one whole side. Fortunately, one, that is quick and easy, and, two, once it's setup, needing to do that would be extremely rare.

I have 6 D-rings on my rigs. R&L chest, R&L waist, front and back of crotch strap. Those (along with 2 thigh pockets on technical dives) have proven sufficient for me to dive with doubles or CCR, up to 3 AL80s for bail out or deco, drysuit inflation bottle, a camera or a scooter (not both at the same time yet), a primary (canister) light and backup lights, an SMB, a backup lift bag, a couple of reels, backup mask, wet notes, cutting devices, and a PLB.

Someone else might need more D-rings, but 6 has been enough for me.

 

[Scared Silly]

As to plastic clips, well, they are a failure point and an unnecessary complication.

The one place I like plastic is for the tri-bar that I use to keep my can light in place. They are a bit easier to adjust over metal tri-bars.

 

[Kaneda13]

My set doesn't have any plastic clips except for the little strap from the left to right shoulder pad. the clips on the chest are stainless steel, it's for 8 D-rings total (4 on the shoulders, left and right hip, front and back crotch strap.

 

[Nemrod]

The one place I like plastic is for the tri-bar that I use to keep my can light in place. They are a bit easier to adjust over metal tri-bars.

I have a plastic clip on my crotch strap and it has been replaced several times. As I type this I have an arm sling on for rotator cuff surgery two weeks ago, I may choose to add a buckle or clip on my shoulder strap(s). You gotta do what you gotta do.

OP, if you like what you have then use it and be happy. You have the makings of an excellent piece of kit. It may not be what those of us who are Hogarthian or perhaps better described as Minimalist would choose but screw us, lol, you like it, you got it, dive the heck out of it!

Me, I would probably have returned the wing, which was the original question, for the one I wanted. DR is good stuff, maybe you lucked out on that, only you can decide.

James