Just for laughs...

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What they are doing is not dangerous and not impacting the environment (ok, lets not discuss the environmental impact of 1000 cubic meter heated pools ;-))

It certainly does not 'look' that good.
But it gives some sidemount experience. Better than getting none at all.
(the alternative is not to seek better training locally, there is next to none and that means going abroad and a constant fight for acceptance afterwards, not everyone is prepared to take that...)

Regardless of how much trouble I had gone to get to the dive centre in June this year, had I come across an instructor showing me that kind of standard, I would have shoved the nearest object which would fit into his mouth and perhaps somewhere else and told him to go take more than just a hike. Perhaps there are no clearcut definitions on what constitutes true sidemount diving but the current generally accepted consensus is there for more than just one reason.

Pullmyfinger:
I have never noticed any resistance caused by deco tanks, or by their angle. That sound like one of those justifications that some sidemount proponent seem to add to the ever lengthening list of justifications or "benefits" for side mount.

If you had to constantly "hug" that slung tank, then your setup was wrong. If a diver isn't able to figure out how to rig and dive that additional tank....then how would that same diver be able to figure out how to rig up a side mount setup??

Perhaps I noticed the difference because I dive sidemount all the time and even in sidemount fashion, should the lower snap hook on the tank strap slide up by even half an inch, thus causing the neck to rotate and the base to move slightly away from my body, I can feel the added resistance because I know full well that when the rig's set up right, as in customized to your body's dimensions and preferences, it's sweet as hell and you don't get valves and 1st stages rubbing your armpits. Plus you'll really glide through the water further with every fin stroke.
 
Regardless of how much trouble I had gone to get to the dive centre in June this year, had I come across an instructor showing me that kind of standard, I would have shoved the nearest object which would fit into his mouth and perhaps somewhere else and told him to go take more than just a hike. Perhaps there are no clearcut definitions on what constitutes true sidemount diving but the current generally accepted consensus is there for more than just one reason.
Shared that feeling in 2011, but they where bigger and meaner than me :eyebrow:

No, seriously, I learned then to be gracious there with others. :blinking:
I saw immediately even during theory lessons than that I could not learn much there, but still there where a few things that helped.
In the water they could not match anything even I could do on my second dive in the Razor, but there is still much you can learn seeing highly experienced divers master inferior equipment.
Today the are using things like the Hollis SMS50, as far as I know, so they seem to be able to improve their training as they gain experience and certified equipment becomes available.

I can only repeat referring to NetDoc's statements there.
Have fun, do your best and if you want to lead, lead by good example.
dive and let others dive too :D (even badly if they desire - 'bad' is only a personal opinion in sidemount at this stage)
 
"Bad" can't really be defined based on personal opinion.
Eventually there will be a standard......and performance standards are either above, below, or meet the standard.

As far as "bad".....it often is one of those things where, you just know it when you see it.
 
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No, seriously, I learned then to be gracious there with others. :blinking: ...

That I'll agree wholehearedly because I'm in my middle age now and I've learned to let certain things slide so that I don't have to keep looking over my back since I live somewhere where jobless people will moonlight as killers for just a few meals but if you want to be an instructor, then be an instructor. Be someone who not only knows more but has more experience in justifying what you know and do.

Again, there may not be anything set in stone for sidemount diving but it's generally accepted that the tanks are to be attached in such a manner so as to allow better streamlining than a backmounted setup and they've failed terribly at that. The only excuse I can think up for them is that they did a literal translation of hanging the tanks on the side as an alternative to backmount and the English translation became sidemount.
 
...and performance standards are either above, below, or meet the standard...
Well, if someone wrote standards here today, that would mean either (strict and only) Hollis SMS100 clipped-in style as seen in the Video, or sandwich backplate systems. :rofl3: ... :(
Standards are seldom written by those that have really understood the matter - they go with the mainstream opinion.
Concerning sidemount diving we are a bad joke over here mostly (including myself, I have to admit), and nobody seems to be able to 'see it'. :confused:

Mind you, some instructors actually teach something valuable, but as mentioned above, that's mostly sandwich backplate systems then - better, but far from 'modern'.
Allows some impressive technical and cave dives though.

That is of course only a very subjective perspective I am talking from.
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Can we at least agree, that the video that started this discussion is/was not showing anything 'dangerous', only some inexperienced beginning instructors and students?
Not a shining example, but still something that could be fun to learn? (and improve on afterwards)
 
There are quite a few knowledgeable folks on this forum and in this very thread who you can message to gain more insight into sidemount diving. For me, I'm glad that I've managed to find a dive shop owner who doesn't mind me tagging along for free whenever he goes out. As a solo diver, he allows me to have the boat to myself after his students and he are dropped off since the shore is just a few tens of metres away BUT I always tell him that I don't mind diving in the same area since my aim is not to sightsee but to practice, practice, practice, experiment and practice. :D
 
"Bad" can't really be defined based on personal opinion.
Eventually there will be a standard......and performance standards are either above, below, or meet the standard.

There are equipment specific and generic diving standards. That's why, even without a consensus on equipment approach, we can still see "bad" in some examples.

Trim, hose-routing, streamlining, efficiency, control, ergonomics etc etc etc.... they're all factors that transcend any singular configuration or approach.

What's currently recognized as "good" sidemount examples follows the same basic principles and considers the same factors as back-mount. Those attracting scorn seem to have abandoned considering those factors (or never understood or embraced them in the first place... which is perhaps more alarming).

Sidemount diving is quite 'fresh'. What's differentiating good and bad sidemount instructors at the moment is whether, or not, they have developed that prime understanding of the core principles that under-pin good diving at more advanced levels.

The bad ones are those who have, thus far, been content to mimic and regurgitate backmount configuration approaches and look 'acceptable. When transitioning into sidemount, there is less 'standardization' for them to mimic and regurgitate....it's new. They lack the depth of understanding to apply core principles to something new; there are no 'by-numbers' approaches for them to follow; they have to appreciate and apply principles.... which they cannot... so the results are pitiful.
 
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