Just finished AOW. Took me a while. It was garbage.

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There is no way that a diver can become an "Advanced Diver" with 5 - 6 dives at all!! The "AOW" was many years ago called "Open Water Diver II" and the current "OW" course was called "Open Water I" or "Scuba Diver." One agency changed the names to gain market advantage and we ended up with all agencies following this unfortunate change.

This second level course (whatever you call it) was merely meant for the certified student to gain additional diving experience beyond the beginner course and add more comfort to their diving. Not much academics were required except "orientation" sessions for the student to be familiar with the type of diving done in the course. There is also the opportunity for the student to "sample" different specialties (not expected to become expert or proficient in these specialties).

With NAUI, we used to have "Open Water I," "Open Water II," "Advanced Diver" and "Master Scuba Diver." These levels allowed reasonable experience and training progression for the diver. We gave more dive experience in OWII and then added substantial practical knowledge in the old "Advanced Diver" level. Now, we don't have the "Advanced Diver" level which did leave a real gap in diver's training. "AOW" is not really advanced and to go on to "Master Scuba Diver" out of "AOW" is not realistic or proper.
 
I believe I paid 275 total for my AOW here in Ohio. I had a lot of fun and got a lot out of it. I had never used a lift bag before. I complained at the time of the deep dive at 81 feet because of the 47 degree water.

It was just me and another student. I was glad to do any dives with this Instructor who has 1000s of dives more than I.

IMHO it comes down to the Instructor and the LDS.
 
I love my PADI and could quite easily become a PADI course adventure groupie.

I structure my adventures around small shops in far away fishing-touristy villages with complete strangers and accommodate through them or with other adventurees or girls or the instructors and families or boys or couples or the local pub or a caravan park or a motel and because of the surroundings, adventurist costs are insignificant and everyone entertains everyone else and we do some dives and gain night or a few more feet and everyone enjoys themselves and there might be some dancing rumpy pumpy and then we all go off a honing and we either continue the newly formed bonds or don't and I always get invited back for more experiments because without PADI there would be no industry and diving would be far less accessible and I would be on the couch because my parents didn't teach me to walk and somewhat hindered my crawling because there was dirt on the ground but then i suppose it was up to me as well so I learned to break out of the enclosure.

No question, or case to answer. Your Honour.
 
There is no way that a diver can become an "Advanced Diver" with 5 - 6 dives at all!! ....This second level course (whatever you call it) was merely meant for the certified student to gain additional diving experience beyond the beginner course and add more comfort to their diving....... "AOW" is not really advanced and to go on to "Master Scuba Diver" out of "AOW" is not realistic or proper.

Exactly. :kiss2:

Advanced Open Water

Advanced Open Water

Advanced Open Water

Advanced Open Water

Advanced Open Water

Advanced OPEN WATER

Why do people transfix only on the first word of the certification name?
 
Agreed and if it is Advanced Open Water it should impart new OW skills. Using a liftbag, navigation, non silting kicks, use of a pony or stage bottle, and diving at night are all OW skills that most just do not have enough time to put in the basic class. As Andy stated earlier those skills are made more difficult though by starting the next phase when the basics such as buoyancy control AND trim are not sufficiently addressed (or addressed at all) and students not given time to practice them. Friday I had 6 kids for an Intro to Scuba session. Within 20 minutes of taking them in two at a time 5 of the 6 were swimming horizontal without me assisting them other than adjusting their initial buoyancy. They were also properly weighted. They listened to the part about controlling their position by using their breathing and 3 were actually quite good at it. They were fascinated to see that they could do it. I have seen OW students on checkouts with other instructors that had less control. And yet these students are encouraged to go on to AOW. I'm sure Andy's students are ready for AOW when they go. Mine are but I do not allow it until they get some dives in and practice what we covered in OW. I am one of those instructors who goes way beyond standards and puts many new skills in my AOW class. If the student does not have the basics down they will not pass. But I will do a pre course assessment, dive with them, and even set up some remedial training sessions to bring them up to snuff. To allow divers to progress when they do not have the basics down and give them a card that will grant access to sites that require more than just basic skills is, in my opinion, reckless and irresponsible.
 
Exactly. :kiss2:

Advanced Open Water

Advanced Open Water

Advanced Open Water

Advanced Open Water

Advanced Open Water

Advanced OPEN WATER

Why do people transfix only on the first word of the certification name?

Exactly - I keep saying exactly the same thing, but nobody ever listens!
 
Jim,

I am not sure that I understand the first 3 sentences in your post. Are you saying that you teach liftbag, navigation, non silting kicks, use of a pony or stage bottle, and diving at night in your AOW course?

My issue with trying to squeeze too many new skills in the AOW (I emphasize that I don't believe in the "Advance" connotations implied in the name), there is way too much to "master" and hardly any time left for improving on the basic skills and MOST importantly having practice time on what I call "practical ocean dynamics." The 6 dives done in the basic course are hardly enough for the newly certified student (I call them certified students not diver since it takes a lot more experience to become a "diver") to become comfortable and master the essential and basic skills including those of getting in and out of the ocean safely.

My "theory" now after 34 years of diving all over the world and teaching for almost 25 years at all levels, is that the second course should not involve too many new skills but should be more dive time under supervision where the student is involved in several dives (6 - 8) in conditions similar to where he will be diving locally. The emphasis in this course should be on practical issues such as learning about "Ocean Dynamics", local marine life, proper dive planning, buddy diving with different buddies, night diving. Basically practice of what was learned in the basic course but under professional supervision.

One issue I do differently from you is that I HIGHLY recommend to my students to enroll in the "Phase II" or "AOW" immediately or ASAP after their basic course. In my view, the whole point of the second course is to get open water time under professional supervision and guidance. In this "Phase II," we condense a "season's" worth of diving in 2 - 3 weekends for the new certified students to improve their diving skills and help them avoid the potential mistakes new certified students make in their first 20 - 30 dives.

What do you think?
 
When I add extra 'OW' skills within an AOW course - it is because I view the course as a cumulative process, rather than 5 individual and isolated dives. What is learnt on one dive, is then reinforced on subsequent course dives. There isn't that much task loading on AOW dives as far as standards go... so many extras can be fitted in...either as specific skills, or just as part of the dive plan.

As Jim says, a pre-course assessment allows you to identify the starting point of the student's capacity. I don't bar entry to the course (tourist industry, not locals), but I can plan an effective course that is best for the student based on what I learn. It's not hard to fit the 'extra' dive into my schedule, as most places I've worked run 2-dive boat trips... so the course is 3 days. There is always the extra dive...and I prefer them to take that at the beginning, rather than end of the course.

As a basic example:

If you start AOW with a 'PPB' dive, then you can crack buoyancy, trim and propulsion (non-silting). Horizontal hover and ascent is introduced. Those are then reinforced and perfected over every following dive on the course. I teach DSMB on this also, as the student will shoot a bag on every subsequent dive.

Navigation is normally the second dive. Lots of time to practice finning (close to the bottom, no silt...correct pace... reinforce buddy skills etc). Once the student has done the Nav dive, they are responsible for planning and directing the navigation of all subsequent course dives (under my supervision).

Third dive can be Nitrox. Easy enough to do the dive (emphasis is on dive planning and depth/time/gas/buddy awareness), so there is lots of 'flex' to incorporate other desired skills. Despite the 'distractions' of the dive skills - I will push the students to ensure they 'plan the dive and dive the plan'... taking responsibility for their dive, despite that I might sneakingly distract them from that. This stresses independance and responsibility.

Fourth dive is normally photo or wreck. Both allow more reinforcement of the core skills. Done on Nitrox, it enables completion of the Nitrox spec, if the student has opted for that. Photo demands more work on buoyancy and control. Wreck fine tunes propulsion, nav and allows some basic reel work. Students will be introduced to slung pony on this dive.

Last dive is Deep. I see this as the 'graduation' dive. They plan and 'lead' the dive, demonstrating proper dive skills throughout...carrying a slung pony (opportunity to practice air sharing and self-rescue from OOA) and shooting a DSMB from the safety stop before ascent. Ascent and safety stop are peformed horizontal and within 50cm tolerance. I usually include several narcosis tests...both static and after an 'accelerated swim' to show them the effect of CO2 on narcosis. If the site permits, then I will give them a 'zero viz' familiarity.
 
The only reason to get a AOW card is that some boats require it for boarding.
 
Jim,

I am not sure that I understand the first 3 sentences in your post. Are you saying that you teach liftbag, navigation, non silting kicks, use of a pony or stage bottle, and diving at night in your AOW course?

My issue with trying to squeeze too many new skills in the AOW (I emphasize that I don't believe in the "Advance" connotations implied in the name), there is way too much to "master" and hardly any time left for improving on the basic skills and MOST importantly having practice time on what I call "practical ocean dynamics." The 6 dives done in the basic course are hardly enough for the newly certified student (I call them certified students not diver since it takes a lot more experience to become a "diver") to become comfortable and master the essential and basic skills including those of getting in and out of the ocean safely.

My "theory" now after 34 years of diving all over the world and teaching for almost 25 years at all levels, is that the second course should not involve too many new skills but should be more dive time under supervision where the student is involved in several dives (6 - 8) in conditions similar to where he will be diving locally. The emphasis in this course should be on practical issues such as learning about "Ocean Dynamics", local marine life, proper dive planning, buddy diving with different buddies, night diving. Basically practice of what was learned in the basic course but under professional supervision.

One issue I do differently from you is that I HIGHLY recommend to my students to enroll in the "Phase II" or "AOW" immediately or ASAP after their basic course. In my view, the whole point of the second course is to get open water time under professional supervision and guidance. In this "Phase II," we condense a "season's" worth of diving in 2 - 3 weekends for the new certified students to improve their diving skills and help them avoid the potential mistakes new certified students make in their first 20 - 30 dives.

What do you think?

Yes that is correct. I outline what I offer in my AOW course in my new book that will be out in March and why I do it. I wrote the material, developed a power point, and wrote the instructor Guidelines which I will provide to anyone for a nominal fee. The dives I offer in my AOW class are Advanced Skills, UW Nav, Night/low vis, Deep, Search and recovery or wreck, and Buddy Skills and assist which is an intro to Rescue beyond the OW class. I do not offer any other dives in AOW. The dives that are in the course are in the order listed and each builds upon the previous one. There is 6-8 hours of classroom as well.

I wrote the course to address the skills I felt would be needed by the students who come to me for training. All of the students so far have come from other agencies and all but one has taken AOW with that agency and found it lacking. I do interviews with these students, may require a pool session or two and in two cases dove with them first to assess their skills prior to entry to the course. I will not issue a card if they do not meet my standards. This is understood going in. I am free to add skills to my class as I see fit to best prep my students for the dives they will be doing. It has also had the effect on some of pointing out deficiencies in their previous training and encouraged them to go on for more with qualified instructors from other agencies. I have had it called educational, exciting, and humbling. Entry requirements include being able to perform basic skills while horizontal, neutral and hovering or swimming, a minimum of 10 dives post OW, and the ability to follow directions. Buddy skills are enforced rigorously on all dives.

Separation is not acceptable. One time gets a warning, twice and the class is done until more work is put into staying with your buddy. Disregard standard safety procedures and the ones I require once it gets a warning. Twice and you're out. No refund, the class is over, no card. I realize that I could make more money and get more people by relaxing my rules but that is not why I teach it. AOW gives divers access to dives where basic OW skills may not be enough and can get them into serious trouble much faster. This is the problem with the "Advanced" name. Divers get a false sense of security and ops think it covers their ass. It may, but what about the ethical obligation to make sure that divers are as prepped as possible for these dives.

As an instructor I feel I have a moral and ethical duty to not grant access with my name unless these people truly deserve to be there. What right do I have to withhold access to them? Simple my name is on the card and they are a direct reflection of my skills as an instructor. They are also putting themselves at risk based on the training I provide. The course I wrote lets me sleep at night knowing that if they follow the guidelines and training I have given them it is highly likely they will not get hurt. I can't control nature, medical conditions, the actions of the ops, or even their own judgment which could be clouded by factors I cannot envision. But I can make sure that I give them the skills I have found useful and in some cases necessary to do what are called "advanced" dives.

As to providing more dives with an instructor, I heartily agree with this but it does not require a class to do that. Just go do some fun dives and invite students to come along. Every student I have is welcome to come on any dive outing at any time when the dives are within their experience and training. I will also for a few bucks to cover gas and food go with them to just give tips, pointers, and evaluate their progress. I feel this is more benficial than having them take a class they are not ready for. In addition if the basics are solid they should not be developing bad habits on their own. This is instilled in the OW class. Of course I have them for 16 hours in the classroom and 16 in the pool to ingrain good habits. If they don't get them in that time checkouts would be delayed until they do see what is required. Why would you take anyone for checkouts who is not ready. By the time you get them to OW all that is being done is verifying they are ready and at the end would be someone you'd let your kids dive with and you not there. If not they are not ready for OW.
 
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