Jacket BCD to BP/W transition experience

[SwimJim]

I own a Pro-QD. I use it all the time. I bought it back in 2002 and have around 350 dives on it. It is a quality piece of gear that only had one major short coming. The weight pouches were only secured by velcro. There has been some sort of buckle added on later models I see. After 100 dives or so the velcro wore out and these weight pockets became self ditching. Most disconcerting. After that little episode I went back to a weight belt. When I bought this BC the original documentation said that you could get doubles bands for it and gave part numbers etc. I tried to go that route and got the deer in head lights look at the LDS.(pretty common at this place) She called the manufacturer and they said because the Pro-QD has a plastic back pack, using the doubles rings on it is not a recommended practice. As I had made the decsion to run doubles on some of my deeper wreck dives I decided to pair up a couple of my eighties with a double iso manifold and bands. I picked up an Apex BPW with thier sixty pound wing. Instead of the Mickey mouse weight pockets I went with a DUI weight harness and I use that with the BPW set up and the Pro-QD now. Setting up the BPW was not cheap. It cost me something in the $600.00 neighborhood with the bands and manifold. But having redundancy for deeper dives or testing out a freshly rebuilt regulator makes it worth while. I still dive the Pro-QD as it is simple to use and although its bulky, its also comfortable both in the water or waiting on deck. Both systems work well in the environment they were designed for.

Jim

 

[tonka97]

I, too, hope to move from a jacket-style BC to a BP/W setup, so I'm interested to know more about your experience from a diving perspective. How does it compare concerning trim, buoyancy control, ease of donning/doffing, handling on land, set-up and tear-down, cleaning/maintenance, etc.?

Oh, I just realized, you're talking about converting not just from BC to BP, but also from single cylinder to two, so some of these things may not compare. But please share more of your thoughts on how it works. And thanks!

Thanks for your post. I will, and invite others that have gone through this transition to post their experience.

 

[TSandM]

I, too, hope to move from a jacket-style BC to a BP/W setup, so I'm interested to know more about your experience from a diving perspective. How does it compare concerning trim, buoyancy control, ease of donning/doffing, handling on land, set-up and tear-down, cleaning/maintenance, etc.?

I went through the transition at about 40 dives.

Most people will find an improvement in trim by switching to a BP, UNLESS they have a BC with trim pockets and have used them. Why? Because they move weight up onto their back, which means their legs aren't being pushed down by weight too low on the body. My husband, on the other hand, had a Seaquest Balance and used his trim pockets, and found no difference in trim going to a BP.

Buoyancy is no different. An air bladder is an air bladder, and has to be managed the same.

It is easier to get in and out of a BC with quick releases, although with proper adjustment and time spent in practice, one can get out of a harness easily on land and in the water.

Setup and teardown can be a little more involved with a BP/W, if you take everything apart to clean it, as I do. You have to put the wing on the BP and put the BP on the tank. With the DSS setup I have, it's pretty trivial, and I LIKE the ability to take it all apart for cleaning, and for packing when we travel.

Handling on land is about the same. The only thing you have to do is train people on boats NOT to pick the rig up by the wing

The big pluses for me were perfect fit, and comfort and stability in the water, which is, after all, where you really care how your gear works!

 

[*Floater*]

I, too, hope to move from a jacket-style BC to a BP/W setup, so I'm interested to know more about your experience from a diving perspective. How does it compare concerning trim, buoyancy control, ease of donning/doffing, handling on land, set-up and tear-down, cleaning/maintenance, etc.?

My first 20-30 dives were done using basic rental jackets and I then went on to a bp/w. I wasn't taught about trim during OW or AOW, and for venting I was just told to go vertical and lift the power inflator all the way up to purge. Diving like that the jackets worked great and I never realized there was something wrong with it until I started reading SB.

When I switched to a bp/w my trim improved and I started using the rear dump without breaking trim too badly, but that's because I was trying to dive like that (after becoming aware that that's how people were supposed to dive) rather than because of the rig. The rear venting got even easier once I replaced my horseshoe wings with donut wings (though many others feel the O vs. U-bladder design doesn't matter). It did take a few dives for me to get used to balancing the wings out and shifting gas from side to side though and at first I was slightly top heavy and turtled when hovering because I didn't realize I was supposed to balance the wing out (not something I had to do with jackets).

Donning/doffing was also harder at first because I bought a bp/w rig with a hog harness (no quick-releases), but it wasn't a big deal and once I learned the overhead donning/doffing method it became super quick to remove the rig in water (or don on land with single tank). The trick to donning is to put the wrist instruments on last so they don't get stuck on straps when sliding into the harness.

Initial setup takes maybe 30 minutes if you do it right the first time, more if you later have to tear it down to add the inner tube and such (like I did), and once it's set you still need to do a few dives and keep adjusting until it's dialed in. I ended up still adjusting mine during DIRF course (20-30 dives after I got the rig); I tightened the harness and repositioned the d-rings slightly. Anyway, after it's all dialed in it takes about 3 minutes to readjust things when changing exposure protection (with the hog harness).

Not sure what you mean by tear down? Removing the wing just takes the time it takes you to unscrew a few wingnuts or with my first wing (DSS) you could just pull it straight off since it used rubber studs instead of bolts with wingnuts. Maintenance consists of the same things as with regular BCD's I guess. You soak it after the dive, drain it, put some water inside and shake to rinse the bladder too. After several years you may want to replace or service the inflator as with any BCD. Also, some backplates may require you to replace the harness after lots of diving and that takes maybe 30 minutes max if you know what you are doing.

In summary, it takes maybe 30 min set a bp/w up and to start diving it, but you may end up spending a lot more time fine tuning it later. Donning/doffing, trimming the rig out and venting it can also take some practice to master, but that's not to say you can't dive the rig fine from the start, just that some things become easier or better over time. This is just my personal experience.

 

[djanni]

I went through the transition at about 40 dives.

Most people will find an improvement in trim by switching to a BP, UNLESS they have a BC with trim pockets and have used them. Why? Because they move weight up onto their back, which means their legs aren't being pushed down by weight too low on the body. My husband, on the other hand, had a Seaquest Balance and used his trim pockets, and found no difference in trim going to a BP.

Buoyancy is no different. An air bladder is an air bladder, and has to be managed the same.

It is easier to get in and out of a BC with quick releases, although with proper adjustment and time spent in practice, one can get out of a harness easily on land and in the water.

Setup and teardown can be a little more involved with a BP/W, if you take everything apart to clean it, as I do. You have to put the wing on the BP and put the BP on the tank. With the DSS setup I have, it's pretty trivial, and I LIKE the ability to take it all apart for cleaning, and for packing when we travel.

Handling on land is about the same. The only thing you have to do is train people on boats NOT to pick the rig up by the wing

The big pluses for me were perfect fit, and comfort and stability in the water, which is, after all, where you really care how your gear works!

Nice. Balanced. I'm impressed.

 

[TSandM]

My brain hasn't been completely dissolved in Kool-Aid . . .

 

[tonka97]

It did take a few dives for me to get used to balancing the wings out and shifting gas from side to side though and at first I was slightly top heavy and turtled when hovering because I didn't realize I was supposed to balance the wing out (not something I had to do with jackets).

Possibly a naive question.

Could you explain balancing wings, and shifting gas?

 

[SelkieDVM]

This is a great thread. Thanks, everyone.

 

[*Floater*]

Possibly a naive question.

Could you explain balancing wings, and shifting gas?

When you are in horizontal trim your wing is usually wrapped up slightly around the tank with some gas on both sides. If you have the right (usually equal) amount of gas on both sides then you can float there happily without problem. However, sometimes you end up with more gas on one side than the other so then that side is lighter than the other and you start to flip over if you just float there. (If you are finning you may not even notice the imbalance). To correct this (to balance out the wing) you need to shift some gas from the lighter side to the other one. i.e. you tilt head (or butt works too with donuts) up slightly so the gas goes to the top of the wing (or bottom with donuts) and then you raise one shoulder to shift some gas to that side, or you just go shoulders even back down down to trim position and the gas will divide between both sides as needed. This process is called balancing out the wing and becomes almost automatic after a while. However I never had to do it with the jacket BCD's (maybe I was never trim anyway) so it caught me by surprise on my first few bp/w dives before I realized what was going on and what to do about it.

 

[H2Andy]

when i went from my Oceanic PRobe to a bp/wings set up, i bought the following:

1. backplate (came with harness and croth-strap)
2. wings
3. single tank adaptor

and that was it. i had a weightbelt, and used that with soft weights. if i didn't have those, i would have bought them.

after a few dives, i bought one pouch to clip to the belt.

and that's it.

i didnt' have to change anything about the bp/wings to go to doubles. just took out the STA, changed to a doubles wing, and bolted tanks directly to the backplate.

i can easily switch between single and doubles setup.