Isn't scuba supposed to be fun too?

[JamesK]

What is a long hose and necklace?

PM Sent

 

[SC_Hoaty]

What is a long hose and necklace?

Its part of a hogarthian set up. Google it

I don't want the answer to derail this thread, but Incognegro deseves a bit better answer.

Here are some links:
Hogarthian Gear Configuration
SFDJ
http://aquatec.files.wordpress.com/2011/03/explanation-of-hogarthian-way-billy-williams.pdf

In a nutshell, one's primary reg is on a long hose, while the backup (aka octo) is worn on a short length of surgical tubing ("bungee") just below the chin (thus necklace.) When a diver needs to donate, he gives up his primary (long hosed reg) and drops his head a bit and the bungeed backup is right there for him. The long hose helps go through narrow passages (like caves) single file, while donating air.

Back on the main subject, please.

 

[BDSC]

As a recreational diver usually no deeper that 70-80 feet I don't need to bungee my octopus. My split fins do just fine. I don't practice frog kicks and a standard flutter kick does just fine. I am comfortable with my skills, always dive to my training, and try and stay close to my buddy. My vacation diving friends don't really dive where silt is a problems. Are respectful to the reef, stay off the coral, and don't harass the marine life. They just don't dive very gracefully, don't always hold a horizontal trim, can use awkward looking kicks, and often use their hands trying to hold their buoyancy.

But we are having a good time.

Have fun, dive safe.

Smile, it beats frowning.
Laugh, it beats crying.
Love, it beats hating.

I like you approach to things!

 

[randytay]

I don't want the answer to derail this thread, but Incognegro deseves a bit better answer.

Here are some links:
Hogarthian Gear Configuration
SFDJ
http://aquatec.files.wordpress.com/2011/03/explanation-of-hogarthian-way-billy-williams.pdf

In a nutshell, one's primary reg is on a long hose, while the backup (aka octo) is worn on a short length of surgical tubing ("bungee") just below the chin (thus necklace.) When a diver needs to donate, he gives up his primary (long hosed reg) and drops his head a bit and the bungeed backup is right there for him. The long hose helps go through narrow passages (like caves) single file, while donating air.

Back on the main subject, please.

I dont want to be accused of "forcing my philosophy in your face"

 

[ScubaSteve1962]

Thanks guys, now let's go back to having funarty:

 

[Rich Keller]

Winning is more fun than losing. I do remember telling the little league kids just have fun, but remember it's more fun to win.

I learned this differently. I was told it was OK to lose as long as you beat the point spread.

 

[SC_Hoaty]

Winning is more fun than losing. I do remember telling the little league kids just have fun, but remember it's more fun to win.

I learned this differently. I was told it was OK to lose as long as you beat the point spread.

Tough neighborhood when the little league games were handicapped by the bookies!

 

[boulderjohn]

But, you don't see, commonly anyway, instructors from the BIG scuba agencies advocating a change in teaching methods to better teach those skills.

As Bob mentioned, several of us who are on ScubaBoard got an article published about just this in the PADI professional journal last year.

In addition, I have had no trouble creating specific courses for specific skills not taught in typical recreational courses. It isn't hard.

I've seen instructors like Boulderjohn, Peter Guy and others not only advocate a change in teaching methods, but successfully get their agency (PADI) to buy into that change. ...
... where the mainstream agencies fail is that they've set a very low bar for entry into the instructor corps ... and an equally low bar for what you "have" to teach. I think the vast majority of instructors out there truly want to produce well-trained divers ... some of them just don't know how to.

I have been giving this some thought and have a half-baked theory.

I believe the big agencies have a firm image in mind of what a skilled OW diver looks like. They have then created a program based on a well-intended balance between 1) an acceptable level of performance for divers to be safe enough so they can then work their way toward that ideal as they dive and 2)how quickly can they achieve that level using the instructional methods they have been using for decades.

Some people have a different ideal of what a skilled OW looks like, and some people have a different idea of how close the student should be to that ideal before being allowed to dive--the bar you mention. For many people, the only solution is to keep doing the same thing longer.

On the other hand, some people who have that different vision of the ideal have also developed instructional methods that bring students closer to that ideal faster than the traditional methods. They are thus able to "raise the bar" themselves without doing anything different other than teaching the skills differently. I am by no means exaggerating when I say the difference between two students taught at the same location for the same amount of time by instructors doing their level best can look as different as night and day when they are done.

 

[TSandM]

I don't think I have ever made fun of or been demeaning to anyone who dives any gear, because of the gear they dive. Or even to people who have had near misses because of equipment or procedure decisions they've made that have backfired. And I certainly have tried very hard, through my entire career on this board, never to be rude to anyone who appears to be asking an honest question.

I think it's important that diving be fun, and I think people who get overly wrapped up in technique often lose sight of that -- and they don't end up being long-term divers. I think people would, in general, have more fun if they were more stable and confident in the water. And the people around them would have more fun if the viz were as good when they left as it was when they arrived.

We're finishing up an OW class this week. None of the students in the class have any GUE training, and if they even know of the agency, it's because of my T-shirt. They've never worn a backplate or a long hose, but all of them know how to get neutral and horizontal, and can do their basic skills in the water column, at least in the pool. All of them know how to do a buddy check, and how to stay together in the water, and why they should do that. All of them know that it will kill the viz to kneel or stand or kick their feet in the sediments, and they've had firsthand experience with that! These are good divers in embryo, and they are not the products of any particular philosophy, except the philosophy that says that a good portion of the fun of being a diver is the joy of being weightless and mobile in three dimensions.

 

[DaleC]

I think part of the problem has to do with the sentiment expressed in the Baseball SCUBA analogy. Last I heard there aren't really winners and losers in diving. When I encounter people who think that way I try to avoid them because I'm personally not in competition with anyone I dive with.

If one could get rid of that competitive "lens" much of the debate would fade away.