Is this really OW diving???

[TMHeimer]

Thank you all for your constructive comments, esp. from the folks who are diving professionals as they have probably seen situations like this first hand, esp. here in Asia. I really appreciate it. So my takeaway is this:

When I got OW certified seven years ago in Thailand, I didn't have pool sessions for the first few dives. We did it in shallow water, 6-8 meter depth, with sandy bottom. And yes, I'm sure I looked awkward, too... I really started to get better, with buoyancy and breathing, after my first 15-20, or so dives. So, now closing on 200 I can definitely see how I have progressed and became better, esp. with the ability to breathe at ease underwater and last lot longer, too. I could barely last 35-40 minutes on 11 liter Luxfer 80 alu tanks whereas now I can go easily 1 hour on similarly profiled dives... I know I still have plenty room for improvement, too. I agree with what some of you said that if this was an OW certified diver, he/she had no business being in open water. Just practice a little more in a pool or shallow water in a supervised setting and get it fixed.

If this was a DSD dive, then I think it is a bit reckless from the agencies to push these onto people. I guess in a vast majority of DSD dives nothing happens but this is a little 'weird' way to introduce people to diving. Maybe I am old-fashioned but you got to earn to dive through proper training. It would be just so much better if newcomers to the sport were made aware how much better and more enjoyable, it is to get properly certified. It can't be that much more expensive and you become a safer diver. I also agree there might be cultural differences and expectations in Asia of some divers giving their safety and trust completely away into DM's hands.

OTOH, it begs a question, how profitable are DSD dives to diving outfits? More than OW courses? Somehow, I doubt it... Plus, I guess, it is too late now, since the agencies opened the DSD 'floodgates' and people take advantage... If you refuse these divers, they just go somewhere else and responsible shops would lose money. I just doubt DSD divers fully understand the risks of what they are doing and many shops do go into details to explain them properly. They just let divers sign the release form, in case s**t happens... I think a glass bottom semisubmersible might be safer place for these divers to explore the wonders of underwater world

I tend to pretty much agree with everything here. Of course, DSDs have been discussed a lot on other threads. I personally agree that the best way to go is just go right into the OW Course. Of course, I figured that I definitely wanted to do this before even stepping into the pool. As well, I mentioned before that I recall reading in PADI material some time ago that the accidents/incidents in DSDs is about double that of any other PADI course. Can't recall when I read that.
The argument in favour of DSDs is that many have said if it weren't for taking a DSD they never would've gotten into scuba, and that it was a great and safe experience. So it's up to each person to decide on it--but, I doubt many who take it have done any research on it. Most probably haven't even heard of scubaboard. DSD is not something I would've done back then. In fact, I believe it was offered on a cruise we took in 1999 (or some form of DSD). I thought....hmmm. not for me. I may get fully certified some day though.
I do agree with whoever said this picture just looked weird--I hadn't ever seen this before, like the first time I saw a bicycle kick--what is that?

 

[Dogbowl]

That's how I got into Scuba. Went on a cruise. Flipped through the excursions. Hey! Scuba! No experience required! Let's try this!

Without DSD, scuba would never have even crossed my mind.

 

[TMHeimer]

double post

 

[Neilwood]

Last year on Cayman Brac there were 2 adult brothers on our dive boat. The younger brother appeared to be mentally impaired to some extent, perhaps high-functioning autism - just a guess, I don't know. But he must have been certified to some level or they wouldn't have let him dive. The 2 brothers stayed very close during dives and often held tight on to each other. It was clear that the older brother was leading the dive, watching the time and depth and air and doing the navigation, etc. The younger brother was wearing a computer because the dive op requires it, but I don't think he was using it. In fact, the first day he got on the boat without a computer but the divemaster insisted on giving him a free loaner.

I had mixed feelings about the situation. The younger brother seemed to love to dive and they showed up every day for every dive. He really wanted to see sharks, but I don't think that he could function very well on his own in an emergency - so he wasn't a good buddy for the older brother. But maybe I am wrong about that, maybe he could manage but was just used to depending on his older brother. He was very compliant and followed his brother's lead but he appeared to be a passenger, enjoying the scenery, not a diver.

Cayman diving is pretty easy and in a way I was glad that he could enjoy this experience, on the other hand I found the situation a little worrisome and perhaps dangerous. I don't mean to judge but I think that shallow water snorkeling from shore - or even shore diving - would have been a better option, except probably no sharks. There were no problems, everything went okay, but there were no emergencies either. It's a tough situation.

I think, so long as they are diving conservatively, there is not really a huge issue. I can only assume that the operator had knowledge of the situation and the guide/DM could make allowance for it.

 

[UFOrb]

Obviously I'm not sure if this was the case here, but I've been on a dive in Thailand when one in the group was having buoyancy issues and looked anxious at the start. I thought we were going to have to abort the dive or hang around until she was able to carry on (or get escorted to the surface) but the guide (who was an instructor) signalled her then grabbed her tank and we completed the dive without much delay, with the DM holding her the entire time (as in the photos posted by the OP). I thought it was a bit ridiculous but was also relieved that I was able to complete the dive with no real delays. I spoke to the girl afterwards and she was actually AOW certified but said she just panicked as she hadn't dived for a few months (must've been less than a year or else she'd have had to have done a refresher). @Centrals No she wasn't from a certain country, but she was from a closely related nearby island nation.

She did join us for another dive next day but with no assistance from a different DM. She was a little less anxious but her buoyancy was terrible! I wasn't paired with her but I did help keep an eye on her and had to grab her at one point when she was sinking rapidly and nearly hit some staghorn coral.
After some strong recommendations at least she agreed to sign up for the peak performance buoyancy course.
My concern is that people seem to be getting through their OW/AOW courses without the adequate skill level, including poor buoyancy control. Hopefully its fairly isolated but it doesn't take many bad divers to damage reefs/ marine life and possibly put others at risk, or having dives cut short or made less enjoyable.

 

[TMHeimer]

UFOrb, Right. I saw something similar regarding an OW cert. diver in Panama (wife of the Op owner). And these folks are CERTIFIED. Now think of some of them walking in off the street to take a DSD.....

 

[Bruno Genovese]

Those pictures remind me of my wife's first Discover Scuba Diving in Cozumel (off a cruise) where she got a little instruction on land, ZERO instruction in the water, and when she was too nervous to submerge the instructor tied her with a line to him so that she just got dragged floating on the surface.

The second DSD was a little better but also far below the minimum PADI standards.

Luckily on her 3rd attempt I was able to find her a decent instructor and she is now certified and looks forward to more diving.

Unfortunately, there are too many terrible operators doing DSD. It is even sadder that certifying agencies like PADI do little or nothing to enforce the minimum standards at the entry level.

 

[diver0008]

What a drag for the DM. Literally.

 

[Centrals]

If anyone of you have the chance to dive the Monad Shoal in Malapascua(Philippines), famous for the thresher shark, keep your eye on the divers who lined across the barrier. Most of them would not know the meaning of neutral buoyancy.
I am PADI trained and do not know the standard of other agency. But I believe at the end of the day it is the diver's mind set which will determine the finishing product. Just like driving. However, I must admit witnessing some instructors giving terrible lessons, dubious advises etc etc to students.

Finally, I believe in small class teaching. From my own personal experiences it were either 1:2 or 1:1.