Is this really OW diving???

[Vicko]

I do this manuver all the time, usually when doing a DSD with people who are not the best swimers or don't want to let go of the inflator.
I also sometimes do it to share air with a customer before we ascend to a safety stop. For the DSD I personaly would never do it deeper then 5 meters, if you ever have to let go of them they might be in trouble any deeper then that.

 

[richdrogpa]

Thank you all for your constructive comments, esp. from the folks who are diving professionals as they have probably seen situations like this first hand, esp. here in Asia. I really appreciate it. So my takeaway is this:

When I got OW certified seven years ago in Thailand, I didn't have pool sessions for the first few dives. We did it in shallow water, 6-8 meter depth, with sandy bottom. And yes, I'm sure I looked awkward, too... I really started to get better, with buoyancy and breathing, after my first 15-20, or so dives. So, now closing on 200 I can definitely see how I have progressed and became better, esp. with the ability to breathe at ease underwater and last lot longer, too. I could barely last 35-40 minutes on 11 liter Luxfer 80 alu tanks whereas now I can go easily 1 hour on similarly profiled dives... I know I still have plenty room for improvement, too. I agree with what some of you said that if this was an OW certified diver, he/she had no business being in open water. Just practice a little more in a pool or shallow water in a supervised setting and get it fixed.

If this was a DSD dive, then I think it is a bit reckless from the agencies to push these onto people. I guess in a vast majority of DSD dives nothing happens but this is a little 'weird' way to introduce people to diving. Maybe I am old-fashioned but you got to earn to dive through proper training. It would be just so much better if newcomers to the sport were made aware how much better and more enjoyable, it is to get properly certified. It can't be that much more expensive and you become a safer diver. I also agree there might be cultural differences and expectations in Asia of some divers giving their safety and trust completely away into DM's hands.

OTOH, it begs a question, how profitable are DSD dives to diving outfits? More than OW courses? Somehow, I doubt it... Plus, I guess, it is too late now, since the agencies opened the DSD 'floodgates' and people take advantage... If you refuse these divers, they just go somewhere else and responsible shops would lose money. I just doubt DSD divers fully understand the risks of what they are doing and many shops do go into details to explain them properly. They just let divers sign the release form, in case s**t happens... I think a glass bottom semisubmersible might be safer place for these divers to explore the wonders of underwater world

 

[richdrogpa]

Pretty common sight in our part of the world over last few years especially if the divers come from certain nation. And I won't be at all surprised if the divers even have AOW!!!
OW + AOW together as one course, another very common practice here.

Yep, unfortunately, I've seen it in Thailand and Indonesia on my dives. Luckily, I never dived with a diving outfit that would accept absolute beginners like this AND take them to more advanced dive sites. If that happened I'd find a different shop to dive with.

 

[richdrogpa]

Context would be important.

Could be special needs, a DSD or a certified diver's personal preference.

Some of us use DPV, maybe this is the human powered version. I've seen some divers wanting this help at the end of a dive, allowing them to relax and enjoy the view rather than focus on the technical aspects of diving.

Would have been interesting to learn the reason behind the behaviour you observed.

Regards,
Cameron

LOL on the 'human powered' DPV comment...

[sarcasm] I should look it up if PADI or SSI offers a cert. card for it... [/sarcasm]

 

[Nianne]

For a try dive, it's mandatory to hold the client for the entire dive when you work for a club that's under the ffessm, for exemple.

I've been doing that a lot, it's painfull for the legs.

 

[KathyV]

Last year on Cayman Brac there were 2 adult brothers on our dive boat. The younger brother appeared to be mentally impaired to some extent, perhaps high-functioning autism - just a guess, I don't know. But he must have been certified to some level or they wouldn't have let him dive. The 2 brothers stayed very close during dives and often held tight on to each other. It was clear that the older brother was leading the dive, watching the time and depth and air and doing the navigation, etc. The younger brother was wearing a computer because the dive op requires it, but I don't think he was using it. In fact, the first day he got on the boat without a computer but the divemaster insisted on giving him a free loaner.

I had mixed feelings about the situation. The younger brother seemed to love to dive and they showed up every day for every dive. He really wanted to see sharks, but I don't think that he could function very well on his own in an emergency - so he wasn't a good buddy for the older brother. But maybe I am wrong about that, maybe he could manage but was just used to depending on his older brother. He was very compliant and followed his brother's lead but he appeared to be a passenger, enjoying the scenery, not a diver.

Cayman diving is pretty easy and in a way I was glad that he could enjoy this experience, on the other hand I found the situation a little worrisome and perhaps dangerous. I don't mean to judge but I think that shallow water snorkeling from shore - or even shore diving - would have been a better option, except probably no sharks. There were no problems, everything went okay, but there were no emergencies either. It's a tough situation.

 

[Vicko]

OTOH, it begs a question, how profitable are DSD dives to diving outfits? More than OW courses? Somehow, I doubt it... Plus, I guess, it is too late now, since the agencies opened the DSD 'floodgates' and people take advantage... If you refuse these divers, they just go somewhere else and responsible shops would lose money. I just doubt DSD divers fully understand the risks of what they are doing and many shops do go into details to explain them properly. They just let divers sign the release form, in case s**t happens... I think a glass bottom semisubmersible might be safer place for these divers to explore the wonders of underwater world

I can't talk for everybody as I only have experience with tourist destination dive centers but DSD is easily half of the revenue and it is "easy money". Think about it, there are many people who would just like to dive and not invest their entire vacation for the full course, just a example from where I work a full course costs 320 euros, lasts 4 days and includes 2+ hours of theory, 8+ practice dives and equipment rental, while a DSD costs 50 euros and the whole thing, theory included lasts 2.5 hours at most.

Are the DSD divers informed of all the dangers? No, I try to educate about all the dangers of diving (although there is a limited amount of stuff that can seriously injure or kill a person in 12 meters of water) but I can't predict a freak wawe taking them up and blowing their lungs trough their ears or a sudden heart attack from a person that claims they are healthy. Again I can't speak speak for all instructors/DM but you don't have to be a genius to figure out how to keep your customer from hurting themselves if you do it 3 times a day 7 days a week and I do belive there are very little serious incidents considering the number of DSD that are done.

I personaly would never recomend them except to people who would like to do a full course after they make sure diving is for them, on the other hand I do enjoy a meal or two a day.

 

[Tippytoes12]

I haven't read all of the replies , but if this dude was taking a video of a manta ray , then I'm guessing it might have been Lembongan. If so , I have seen presumably DSDs at Manta Point in just shorts and tshirts, with just a tank , BCD , weight belt plus of course a camera hanging onto an instructor , in ripping currents and at 22 degrees C. How there arent more accidents I will never know !

 

[Dan]

When I took my girl friend for OW diving for the first few times, she insisted me to hold her hand for the whole dives. As she gained more experience & confidence on her skill, she let go my hand so U can do more underwater photography. What you saw may be something similar situation.

During a dive in a place known for down current / fierce current, like in Crystal Bay, Nusa Penida, Bali or in the BigFish Country (The Channel), Nabucco, Maratua Atoll, East Kalimantan, she was actually asked our DM / guide to put a leash on her BCD to make sure she won't get blown away by the swift current. She doesn't trust me to watch her closely with my camera in one hand while holding on a rock on the other hand while watching those pelagic swimming by. Some people just are not as confident as others and it would take more diving experience to become more relax & self reliance.

 

[richdrogpa]

I haven't read all of the replies , but if this dude was taking a video of a manta ray , then I'm guessing it might have been Lembongan. If so , I have seen presumably DSDs at Manta Point in just shorts and tshirts, with just a tank , BCD , weight belt plus of course a camera hanging onto an instructor , in ripping currents and at 22 degrees C. How there arent more accidents I will never know !

That's exactly where it was, at Manta Point.