Is this guy smoking something or is he on to something?

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randytay

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I'm a Fish!
DIR - what its not

This is a "double-post" to try to get a balanced perspective. For the record, I am a new "convert" to DIR-style diving and am liking it, and still learning.
 
DIR - what its not

This is a "double-post" to try to get a balanced perspective. For the record, I am a new "convert" to DIR-style diving and am liking it, and still learning.

Mark Ellyat's got an 'interesting' diving history. He's done a fair amount of stuff that can only reasonably be described as insane... And some big dives.

Might the 'Techdiver flame wars' have been motivated by ego, a desire to sell product, and other stuff that had little to do with concern for best practise? Probably. Do the systems and protocols that came out of the WKPP make sense? Yes. Have a lot of the original opponents of DIR adopted a lot of the things George Irvine was ranting about? Yes. Has DIR gone through such an evolution that some of the system's originators have turned away from using the term? Yes.

In the end, if whatever's currently being sold as 'DIR' makes sense to you as a way of diving, it doesn't really matter how the system came about. On the other hand, as 'DIR' becomes as much a marketing tool as a philosophy, it's worth always asking if it's the only way. Mark Ellyat would tell you that it's not. Then he'd take you deep air diving... :D (Or do a 250 metre dive using RGBM before it had really been checked out, or dive using a modified Russian submarine escape system as a rebreather, or any of the other stuff you'll find if you check him out).

When it comes to the extremes of diving, there's often as much interest in achieving fame (or infamy) as in the dive. I think it would be fair to say that's probably just as true of some of the people involved in 'DIR' as it is of anyone else. Mark Ellyat chooses to leave a rant about George Irvine on his website. Others choose to launch a constant bombardment of video blogs promoting their latest convoluted 'DIR' solution to a possibly non-existent problem. Just try not to let the white noise get in the way of picking up useful info!!
 
Interesting read. Many threads here on SB mirror the sentiment. There's a place for promoting what you believe to be a good/proper practice. The is NO place for putting down others for their decision for what is good/proper practice for them.
 
Watch out this thread will be locked after He has had His say. Peace be with you, my son.
 
There are a lot of very big egos in cutting-edge technical diving. I conceptualize them as old bulls, snorting and pawing the ground.

If you are interested in DIR-style diving, ask questions. If you can't get a good REASON why you're being told to do something, then either doubt it, or look for someone who CAN give you a good reason . . . because there IS one. In many cases, there are various approaches to things, and sometimes it's hard to pick a "best" one, in which case one is chosen simply because standardization is a core value.

In the early days of DIR diving, there weren't many choices for equipment that met the selection criteria, but that is no longer true, and GUE is brand agnostic, although some instructors may not be :)
 
I always enjoy another view of the diving world but he might not be on the top of my buddy list. :D
 
I've met Mark and discussed some of this stuff with him in person. He does have some strong opinions about things, as would be expected and he does believe that people should think more critically about things (including DIR) than they do. Nothing insane about that, although his webpage does come across as a rant.

He also, for various reasons, has a legitimate bone to pick with RGBM and Bruce Wienke. There is a bit of history to this but what he told me that he's discovered in his deep diving experience that the RGBM paradigm seems to break down in increasingly nasty ways on dives deeper than about 100m. I'd say given the number of really deep dives he's done, that he's in a pretty good position to point out what works and what doesn't work in terms of deco and gasses on those kinds of dives. I'd say, in fact, that he's in a better position to know it than some people with considerably bigger opinions about it. In any event, what he told me is that up to about 100m divers seem to be able to "get away" with using RGBM but that on dives under 100m using it would be insane to do so. One of his biggest bones to pick with the whole DIR paradigm seems to be that certain people with big opinions are wrong (as he sees it) about certain things (particularly about deco) and are completely unwilling to learn from the divers who know this and are completely unrepentent in this support of potentially dangerous practices, like using RGBM for deco.

I'll just disclaimer this by saying that this is what he told me and that I'm not one of the people with enough deep diving experience to know one way or the other. I, therefore, have no opinion about it but I have a sense that Mark is one of the few people in the position to really know.

R..
 
...what he told me is that up to about 100m divers seem to be able to "get away" with using RGBM but that on dives under 100m using it would be insane...

Over?
 
I have looked at SCUBA in general much the same way I have everything else I do. I take advice from the experts and take some things as what they tell me even when I internally, but quietly, question some of the validity. I always want to know "why" and "how". Sometimes the "why" just doesnt make sense to me and I still listen - but doubt the validity.


In everything I have read - and experienced - SO FAR, I agree with everything he has on that webpage. Everything. Funny - except for the fact that I am not as qualified and still reserve judgement until I am more qualified - I could have almost written that word for word


Now - I am open to the fact that I am still learning and will likely change my opinions and understand more as time goes on.
 
Northeast wreck divers and southeast cave divers have different ways of looking at things. Ellyat is Irvine's book-end ... and they both have very healthy relationships with their egos.

Whenever someone comes out ranting against how someone else dives, my first question is "have you ever actually tried it?"

Usually the answer is "no" ... in which case the only practical response is "then STFU" ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)
 
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