Is there an instructor crisis?

[boulderjohn]

It doesn't really seem work great for driving either. AFAIK, the US has double or triple the amount of fatal traffic accidents per capita than European countries that require people to take lessons from an actual driving instructor.

Instructors might put too much lead in you pocket and maybe are not that great a lot of the time... but I'm not sure a random dad or uncle would to a better job. A PADI instructor has at least a 100 dives, uncle Bob might have 8 dives when he starts teaching.

Instructor screwups have sadly led to a number of student deaths when instructors acted in contradiction of their training. It happens, but not all that often. What do you think would happen if instruction were instead led by people who were not trained in those things and were likely to do those forbidden things because they thought they would be good ideas? The instructors who made those fatal mistakes would be sued, and fortunately they would have insurance. Would Uncle Bob have that insurance?

In my 19 years on ScubaBoard, I have seen countless threads in which people praise activities that they feel should be part of scuba instruction that would be open and shut lawsuits in case of a fatality. In more than a half century of instruction, people have learned things that Uncle Bob either doesn't know or doesn't believe.

 

[scubadada]

...the US has double or triple the amount of fatal traffic accidents per capita than European countries that require people to take lessons from an actual driving instructor...

Back in the day, we had driver education and driver training offered in the public schools. I took both over the summer of 1969 when I was 15 1/2. Driver training was many hours behind the wheel with a driving instructor. I got my license after I turned 16.

When my kids were approaching driving age, we hired a driving instructor to train them to drive in addition to taking them out in our cars. The instructor took them to their driving test in the car in which they had their training. It worked out well.

 

[boulderjohn]

I have a feeling we are getting close to the logic sequence I have seen hundreds of times on ScubaBoard. It goes like this.

1. Pretty much all divers you see suck because of crappy instruction.
2. Instruction is crappy because all the instructors who taught them are incompetent.
3. If you want to learn something about scuba, you are better off staying away from certified instructors and choosing a Mentor. A Mentor is a certified diver who will show you the ropes. A proper Mentor has no instructor training and no liability insurance.
4. Mentors are all better than certified instructors.
5. To find a Mentor, just go to anyone in the pool of divers identified in #1 above.

 

[runsongas]

@TravelGas probably some self-selection going on that people who are active and like to do outdoor activities will also try other ones. the overlap or lack thereof between surfers and divers is more interesting.

 

[berndo]

In more than a half century of instruction, people have learned things that Uncle Bob either doesn't know or doesn't believe.

How do you know uncle Bob hasn't been reading reading multi-part series on the TDI blog?

If you're actually asking me, I think you've misunderstood my post.

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

It doesn't really seem work great for driving either. AFAIK, the US has double or triple the amount of fatal traffic accidents per capita than European countries that require people to take lessons from an actual driving instructor.

Instructors might put too much lead in you pocket and maybe are not that great a lot of the time... but I'm not sure a random dad or uncle would to a better job. A PADI instructor has at least a 100 dives, uncle Bob might have 8 dives when he starts teaching.

Tell us all what’s involved with getting a drivers license in Germany for instance. I know what it is, I want to hear it from you.
What do you think that scenario would look like if it was applied to diving?

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

Instructor screwups have sadly led to a number of student deaths when instructors acted in contradiction of their training. It happens, but not all that often. What do you think would happen if instruction were instead led by people who were not trained in those things and were likely to do those forbidden things because they thought they would be good ideas? The instructors who made those fatal mistakes would be sued, and fortunately they would have insurance. Would Uncle Bob have that insurance?

In my 19 years on ScubaBoard, I have seen countless threads in which people praise activities that they feel should be part of scuba instruction that would be open and shut lawsuits in case of a fatality. In more than a half century of instruction, people have learned things that Uncle Bob either doesn't know or doesn't believe.

Do you have any data on what the percentage of fatalities or maimings per capita before organized instruction?
Were they dropping like flies?

 

[berndo]

Tell us all what’s involved with getting a drivers license in Germany for instance. I know what it is, I want to hear it from you.
What do you think that scenario would look like if it was applied to diving?

I don't remember. Some amount of hours (city/country road/night/highway) and a driving test. You can only drive with an instructor in a car that has two sets of pedals though. And it's at least 2 grand or so.

I think the PADI model for training OWD level divers is pretty good over all. I think the 3.5 days and 4 to 5 dives plus pool does a good enough job for a reasonable price. We know it's pretty safe. What I think sucks about the industry is that people are being lied to about 'careers' and that you're supposed to pay thousands of dollars for specialty instructor tickets without ever getting any training for those. That part is a scam.
If uncle Bob took over, you'd see fewer lawsuits (assuming uncle Bob isn't rich) but more people dying and way higher accident rates... and that would possibly result in new legislations down the line.

 

[Wookie]

and that would possibly result in new legislations down the line.

You mean like all of the skiing regulations?

And lawsuits?

 

[Lorenzoid]

I thought all the holes in the skiing analogy were sufficiently revealed a number of posts ago?