Is there a valid reason for a pony bottle

[MaxBottomtime]

Yeah this way if he screws up he dies.

Some friend you are.

Or he begins his ascent with more than enough gas to get him back to the surface, and gets to keep diving from my boat. Did the salesman at your LDS convince you that anyone without a pony is going to die? I'll bet he didn't say the same thing about split fins, big lights, puffy jacket BCs, extra computers or anything else he wanted to sell you.

 

[60plus]

Ultra violet light and chemicals / solvents are the main degrader of rubber not the gases inside. I have tyres (Michelin TDXV) that are still in good condition, hold air for years and no sign of perishing that were OE on car in 1988. I have also had tyres that perish and crack in under 2 years. Where I used to teach welding the gas hoses were replaced every 5 years but there were more problems caused by fitter errors than there would have been if the hoses were left on. Same comment apply to hoses as to tyres, Genuine Dunlop or Honda OE tend to last many many years, whereas some Ebay crap is perishing in less than a year. A quick visual inspection of hoses will pick up most faults. I always carry my hose and regs as hand baggage. I wonder what effect hold pressure and temps may have on them at 39,000 ft?

 

[Fastmarc]

Because pony bottle users almost always don't have one or just wing it with "back on the boat with 500psi" If you ask them how many CF it actually takes to ascend from their 120ft air dive they don't know but gumdangit they got their 13cf pony!

So ponee users who do gas management and still choose to carry one for their personal redundancy are good to go then?
I think we might be getting somewhere. I think the reply to this might be The One!!!

 

[flyboy08]

A pony bottle IMHO is for sudden gas loss (i.e. LP hose failure, first stage failure, or unstoppable free flow). These are not extremely rare, one happened to me.
.

This should be the only response in this thread! No need to be discussed or debated any further!

 

[Esprise Me]

The same thing happened to Henry Cook, an experienced diver at the oil rigs last year.
Accident on Southern Cal Oil Rigs Dive

My morbid obsession with diving accidents continues; I just stumbled across another story of an experienced diver breathing from his pony bottle instead of his primary: Michael McFadyen's Scuba Diving Web Site
Luckily he escaped with just a bruised ego.

 

[CWK]

If you ask them how many CF it actually takes to ascend from their 120ft air dive they don't know .....

Depends on the dive. On 13 October last year, I signaled my buddy to end the dive when I had 65 bar showing on my SPG and we were at a depth of 21m. I would normally use about 10 bar for an ascent with a safety stop from this depth so I should have had 55 bar at the end of that dive. But on this particular dive it took 38 bar and I ended my dive with 17 bar left. It could easily have been zero bar left. An encounter with the washing machine, having to get to my buddy to inflate her BC in order to help her up, and other fun stuff that was not on the dive plan. Stuff happens and I’m going to keep my pony.

 

[flyboy08]

My morbid obsession with diving accidents continues; I just stumbled across another story of an experienced diver breathing from his pony bottle instead of his primary: Michael McFadyen's Scuba Diving Web Site
Luckily he escaped with just a bruised ego.

My pony reg is a deep six, my secondaries are HOG’s....makes it a bit easier to distinguish which is which...using all three the same can lead to confusion as in this scenario.

 

[northernone]

The only valid reason I know for anything in our hobby is "because I want one".

That said, headfirst in a hole and the tank valve blocks with crud (scientific term for oxidation) instantly completely blocking the flow(no drip tube, do you check your rental tanks?), I would not have minded having an alternative air source a few inches away solidly strapped to me. Both a buddy and the surface are quite significantly further away most frequently. Good enough reason for me.

My pony sometimes is a lp131 to go with my second lp131 for a max depth of 32ft or I rely on reaching the surface if needed (and practice regularly to maintain competency) if all other contingency plans fail.

Dive what you like.

Cheers,
Cameron

 

[markmud]

Doctor Mike:
A pony bottle IMHO is for sudden gas loss (i.e. LP hose failure, first stage failure, or unstoppable free flow). These are not extremely rare, one happened to me.

This should be the only response in this thread! No need to be discussed or debated any further!

Hi flyboy08 and Doctor Mike:

It happened to me also. My first stage was preparing to go Mt. St. Helens on me at 80+ fsw (Anacapa Island). My instabuddy pointed toward the boat and then split.

Flyboy08:

I am starting to think that the boat owners who are so vehemently against pony bottles is because they are cocooned in their own little world. I wonder if they dive on charter boats. Or dive with tech divers. Or have witnessed certified or responsible solo divers diving. Maybe they don't know that on many charters, once you splash, your buddy may split at any moment. The scuba police don't cite buddy teams who are not diving responsibly.

Again, why are they so vehemently against someone trying to be self-reliant, even when buddy diving?

I understand that they are the masters of their boats, and their rules apply on their boats. That is the beauty of private ownership of anything.

Why are they trying so hard to dissuade us from using a pony responsibly while not on their boats?

My solo cert is ridiculed regularly because it is called "Self-Reliant Diver." It is for "independent" diving. PADI states that it also makes a diver a better buddy diver because they are more self sufficient. Self sufficient divers can avoid cascading issues if they can take care of themselves while their buddy observes and stands by to assist with a problem.

It is what it is. I hopefully can walk away from this thread. I am ready.
markm

 

[lowviz]

My morbid obsession with diving accidents continues; I just stumbled across another story of an experienced diver breathing from his pony bottle instead of his primary:

I can't imagine any scenario where I could possibly confuse the regs. My donate is in my mouth, my backup is bungeed around my neck and the pony reg is nowhere near either.

This is Basic Scuba Discussions, nothing tech here. A pony is a truly totally independent emergency backup, manifolded doubles aren't and neither are independent doubles. You NEVER plan to use a pony. It is emergency equipment that is meant to be unclipped in a hurry and the secondary reg goes with it. You may need to hand it off or ditch your entangled/overweighted rig.

Note mine, if by the most remote chance one of the clips are clogged with silt or sand then I cut the amber ring.

I think that some posters are confusing redundancy with the original post which is: "Is there a valid reason for a pony bottle?" IMHO, yes there is. But then I'm a solo diver and you are only getting my perspective in this post.