Question Is the KISS Sidewinder the best to learn on on & keep for a lifetime?

[ofg-1]

I know quite a few folks that have clogged orifices

I have had that problem myself, but a little cranberry juice fixed that puppy right up.

 

[J-Vo]

SW fanboy here, I think the problem with the tower isn't necessarily quality, but human factors. I found it was quite easy to only half attach the the bayonets and they would still pass the positive and negative tests. I never dove one like that, but I could see it coming lose. I'm running LM towers and a Fathom needle valve now. Anyone still using a CMF should get a needle valve it is soooooo much nicer to dive.

 

[Whitrzac]

SW fanboy here, I think the problem with the tower isn't necessarily quality, but human factors. I found it was quite easy to only half attach the the bayonets and they would still pass the positive and negative tests. I never dove one like that, but I could see it coming lose. I'm running LM towers and a Fathom needle valve now. Anyone still using a CMF should get a needle valve it is soooooo much nicer to dive.

Why? A properly set CMF is nearly hands free.

 

[J-Vo]

Why? A properly set CMF is nearly hands free.

A needle valve is always proper set. Doesn't matter if your kicking into current or riding the DPV. Do you adjust you CMF IP for every dive?

Edit: typo

 

[rddvet]

Seasoned drivers of cars manage to plow their cars into trees every day. It's not always the driver's fault, but it is usually lack of attention.

Hoses don't go popping off unless you fail to lock them down properly. It's not difficult, just follow procedures and use a checklist if you don't know it well enough. So many dive "pros" get cocky and stop believing they can make a mistake. Bad mouth and slander the product rather than admit a mistake.

This is the typical fanboy response. Its god's unit and everyone with issues with it is dumb.

SW fanboy here, I think the problem with the tower isn't necessarily quality, but human factors. I found it was quite easy to only half attach the the bayonets and they would still pass the positive and negative tests. I never dove one like that, but I could see it coming lose. I'm running LM towers and a Fathom needle valve now. Anyone still using a CMF should get a needle valve it is soooooo much nicer to dive.

Just to be more clear, the towers coming off is just one small aspect of my many issues with the sw (issues and concerns shared by other sw divers, sw instructors, a manufacturer who builds aftermarket parts for the unit, and some people who have a hand in the sw's future).
My big issue is that whenever someone speaks poorly of the sw everyone spouts off that it's not the quality or design of the unit. Its always something else, particularly the divers diving them. When I was about to get certified on the unit all I heard was how amazing it is and its perfect. It really sucked me in. Once I started diving the unit I realized there are many compromises with it in both design and production. Suddenly when I expressed my concerns and opinions, that's when sw owners started sharing similar opinions and thoughts that agreed with my experience.
I won't lie I enjoyed diving the unit because it trimmed out so well. I didn't like the build quality, the standard configuration, and the multitude of drawbacks. I thought I was the odd man out in my opinion until I was honest in my thoughts and then others decided to share their experiences. I've been simplifying my response bringing up tactile examples such as the towers so that I'm not rehashing my entire exeprience all over again and the lengthy list of issues I see with the unit in this thread. If you (the royal you, not you sepcifically) want to hear all of my concerns it can be found searching old threads.

 

[rjack321]

This is the typical fanboy response. Its god's unit and everyone with issues with it is dumb.

Just to be more clear, the towers coming off is just one small aspect of my many issues with the sw (issues and concerns shared by other sw divers, sw instructors, a manufacturer who builds aftermarket parts for the unit, and some people who have a hand in the sw's future).
My big issue is that whenever someone speaks poorly of the sw everyone spouts off that it's not the quality or design of the unit. Its always something else, particularly the divers diving them. When I was about to get certified on the unit all I heard was how amazing it is and its perfect. It really sucked me in. Once I started diving the unit I realized there are many compromises with it in both design and production. Suddenly when I expressed my concerns and opinions, that's when sw owners started sharing similar opinions and thoughts that agreed with my experience.
I won't lie I enjoyed diving the unit because it trimmed out so well. I didn't like the build quality, the standard configuration, and the multitude of drawbacks. I thought I was the odd man out in my opinion until I was honest in my thoughts and then others decided to share their experiences. I've been simplifying my response bringing up tactile examples such as the towers so that I'm not rehashing my entire exeprience all over again and the lengthy list of issues I see with the unit in this thread. If you (the royal you, not you sepcifically) want to hear all of my concerns it can be found searching old threads.

Same and I haven't actually had the tower problem...

I have other concerns, as a general rule my concerns revolve around: 1) the build quality which is unique to the sidewinder and 2) the obsession with "sidemount" when a sidemount CCR has many compromises compared to a backmount CCR and that's not a sidewinder specific critique.

 

[davehicks]

This is the typical fanboy response. Its god's unit and everyone with issues with it is dumb.

Just to be more clear, the towers coming off is just one small aspect of my many issues with the sw (issues and concerns shared by other sw divers, sw instructors, a manufacturer who builds aftermarket parts for the unit, and some people who have a hand in the sw's future).
My big issue is that whenever someone speaks poorly of the sw everyone spouts off that it's not the quality or design of the unit. Its always something else, particularly the divers diving them. When I was about to get certified on the unit all I heard was how amazing it is and its perfect. It really sucked me in. Once I started diving the unit I realized there are many compromises with it in both design and production. Suddenly when I expressed my concerns and opinions, that's when sw owners started sharing similar opinions and thoughts that agreed with my experience.
I won't lie I enjoyed diving the unit because it trimmed out so well. I didn't like the build quality, the standard configuration, and the multitude of drawbacks. I thought I was the odd man out in my opinion until I was honest in my thoughts and then others decided to share their experiences. I've been simplifying my response bringing up tactile examples such as the towers so that I'm not rehashing my entire exeprience all over again and the lengthy list of issues I see with the unit in this thread. If you (the royal you, not you sepcifically) want to hear all of my concerns it can be found searching old threads.

Everyone has feedback and complaints about every product, and that is legitimate. However, the statement that the KISS Sidewinder/Spirit is low quality because it's made of crappy plastic is just plain wrong.

Sure, the thing is almost entirely plastic. Plastic that is highly durable and resistant to degrading in the elements. You might like to see something "better engineered" with more metal parts, but that does not automatically equate to a more durable or reliable product. I don't like the SideWinder myself as sidemount is not for me. But the Spirit which uses nearly identical components on a backplate, is rock solid and perfect for me.

I have 10 years and thousands of dives across the two KISS Spirits my wife and I have been diving, and they have not broken or failed. Apart from "consumable" parts like o-rings, diaphrams, and mushroom valves my units are all original components. The only parts I've had to replace were actually steel OmniSwivel quick disconnects that wore out. Chrome rubbed off, metal lost on the nipple, poor connections.

With good care, regular self-maintenance like rebuilding the BOV, clean the orifice, and servicing the regulators, these units can be run safely and reliably for many years.

 

[rddvet]

Everyone has feedback and complaints about every product, and that is legitimate. However, the statement that the KISS Sidewinder/Spirit is low quality because it's made of crappy plastic is just plain wrong.

Sure, the thing is almost entirely plastic. Plastic that is highly durable and resistant to degrading in the elements. You might like to see something "better engineered" with more metal parts, but that does not automatically equate to a more durable or reliable product. I don't like the SideWinder myself as sidemount is not for me. But the Spirit which uses nearly identical components on a backplate, is rock solid and perfect for me.

I have 10 years and thousands of dives across the two KISS Spirits my wife and I have been diving, and they have not broken or failed. Apart from "consumable" parts like o-rings, diaphrams, and mushroom valves my units are all original components. The only parts I've had to replace were actually steel OmniSwivel quick disconnects that wore out. Chrome rubbed off, metal lost on the nipple, poor connections.

With good care, regular self-maintenance like rebuilding the BOV, clean the orifice, and servicing the regulators, these units can be run safely and reliably for many years.

I'm glad you've had a good experience and success. We clearly have varying viewpoints that we won't agree on, so I won't keep eating up space in this thread about it.
Just to be clear, other concerns include things such as a ****-y ADV, poor dewatering capabilities, not great WOB, amongst others. Quality of build/cheapy plastic manufacturing is just one of the things on the list.

 

[lostsheep]

What plastic do they use for the SW?

Someone has got to know the answer to this. I keep hearing it looks like Home Depot parts, so what is it? Sch40? ABS? PVC? (I doubt it’s pvc)

 

[rjack321]

Someone has got to know the answer to this. I keep hearing it looks like Home Depot parts, so what is it? Sch40? ABS? PVC? (I doubt it’s pvc)

It actually appears to be PVC. At least side by side with PVC conduit and the delrin/acetal in the Meg.