Question Is the KISS Sidewinder the best to learn on on & keep for a lifetime?

[rddvet]

Don't listen to any uninformed nonsense about these being flimsy CCRs. They are solid and super reliable. You can do your own maintenance on these units and keep them running for years.

I guess the instructor trainer who's loop unattached underwater and the several other well-known cave instructors who had the same happen are uninformed? Probably LM and fathom who build better quality parts for the SW are uninfomred as well.
When you put a KISS rebreather up against alot of other commercial rebreathers, it's cheaply built.

 

[lostsheep]

What plastic do they use for the SW?

 

[rjack321]

I guess the instructor trainer who's loop unattached underwater and the several other well-known cave instructors who had the same happen are uninformed? Probably LM and fathom who build better quality parts for the SW are uninfomred as well.
When you put a KISS rebreather up against alot of other commercial rebreathers, it's cheaply built.

Nevermind the orifice itself clogging. I know quite a few folks that have clogged orifices and its so pervasive a problem they just keep diving them as full manual units.

Compare with a fathom needle valve which engineers out the whole problem.

 

[davehicks]

Nevermind the orifice itself clogging. I know quite a few folks that have clogged orifices and its so pervasive a problem they just keep diving them as full manual units.

Compare with a fathom needle valve which engineers out the whole problem.

Dude, it's called SERVICE. You can't dive a regulator for 10 years without servicing it. You need to service the orifice too. I spend a whole 5 minutes each January to take apart the orifice and drop it in an ultrasonic. And if I want to add a needle valve MAV, I can do that too.

What I don't have to do is mail parts of the damn thing to some service center on the other side of the world, which is common with every eCCR unit out there.

 

[davehicks]

I guess the instructor trainer who's loop unattached underwater and the several other well-known cave instructors who had the same happen are uninformed? Probably LM and fathom who build better quality parts for the SW are uninfomred as well.
When you put a KISS rebreather up against alot of other commercial rebreathers, it's cheaply built.

Maybe incompetent instead of uninformed?

If you don't assemble and test your unit properly then it's not going to work properly. This applies to every CCR on the market. There is nothing fragile or cheap about the loops or connectors. Maybe those instructors you refer to should have used a check list to ensure they didn't forget a few steps in assembly? I've replaced worn out hoses before and the connectors are pretty simple and foolproof. And if there is a plague of loose connectors coming from the factory, maybe tighten or check them? But I've never heard of such an issue before from other KISS divers or on any forum.

Your assessment of cheaply built is just an opinion. I've got thousands of dives on this unit that tells me otherwise.

 

[lostsheep]

What I don't have to do is mail parts of the damn thing to some service center on the other side of the world, which is common with every eCCR unit out there.

Not EVERY eCCR out there

Seriously, what plastic do they use? I hate people saying strictly because it’s plastic it’s cheap and weak , that’s an absurd assertion and shows a lack of experience in material selection during design. Not defending KISS here necessarily, I don’t know what they use. That said, I’ve been underwhelmed at some of the machining I’ve seen from KISS (which is one of the few things I’m qualified to assess.)

 

[rddvet]

Maybe incompetent instead of uninformed?

If you don't assemble and test your unit properly then it's not going to work properly.

Yep, exactly like Edd said while I was sitting in class with him as he received the texts about the incidents that occurred. His immediate kneejerk reaction was because they were too stupid to know how to assemble/dive the unit. Funny that multiple of these people were trained instructors on the unit. He didn't get all of the info or background, just an immediate defensiveness about the sidewinder. Which we see alot of from the kiss fanboys.
Interesting that it's happened on multiple units to multiple well-seasoned instructors leading to other people manufacturing aftermarket parts to eliminate the problem.
And yes it it my opinion based on experience and the experiences of other I know who've owned them.

 

[rddvet]

That said, I’ve been underwhelmed at some of the machining I’ve seen from KISS (which is one of the few things I’m qualified to assess.)

Exactly my point. Its not just plastic parts. Its about cheap quality. One of the things the guys working on the SW2 are looking to improve upon. Better qualiity parts, machining, and quality control

 

[davehicks]

Yep, exactly like Edd said while I was sitting in class with him as he received the texts about the incidents that occurred. His immediate kneejerk reaction was because they were too stupid to know how to assemble/dive the unit. Funny that multiple of these people were trained instructors on the unit. He didn't get all of the info or background, just an immediate defensiveness about the sidewinder. Which we see alot of from the kiss fanboys.
Interesting that it's happened on multiple units to multiple well-seasoned instructors leading to other people manufacturing aftermarket parts to eliminate the problem.
And yes it it my opinion based on experience and the experiences of other I know who've owned them.

Seasoned drivers of cars manage to plow their cars into trees every day. It's not always the driver's fault, but it is usually lack of attention.

Hoses don't go popping off unless you fail to lock them down properly. It's not difficult, just follow procedures and use a checklist if you don't know it well enough. So many dive "pros" get cocky and stop believing they can make a mistake. Bad mouth and slander the product rather than admit a mistake.

 

[rjack321]

Small problem... it's perpetual vaporware