Is Suunto really that bad

[Shftrdog]

Yes Suunto is really that conservative and in my opinon it is way to conservative. The Oceanic VEO 3.0 is a great computer. This is the way I see it, a manufatuer is not going to make a computer that is not safe because they would go out of buisness if they did. Oceanic has made some amazing computers that give you more bottem time and are still safe. You are paying to go dive don't wast money on a computer that is going to take away half of your bottem time on your trip. Go for the Oceanic.

 

[BoltSnap]

This is the way I see it, a manufatuer is not going to make a computer that is not safe because they would go out of buisness if they did.

Nonsense. They did and they were sued and lost big time. There will ALWAYS be a chance that a manufacturer would produce computer with flawed software and/or parts just like anything else in the world and people would get hurt. There is no such thing as a "Safe dive computer."

 

[j2s]

How long have you been using your Helo2 ????..I have a Suunto Vytec DS and am thinking of selling it and getting the Helo2...I use an Oceanic Atom 2.0 as a backup or selling the Oceanic.....

 

[Texas Diver]

My wife and I have been diving with Suunto computers for years. We love them. I would recommned the Vyper and Vytec to anyone.

 

[beanojones]

Oceanic has made some amazing computers that give you more bottem time and are still safe.

"The map is not the territory"

Oceanic computers are not 'safer', nor do they 'give you more bottom time'. Your thinking about this is completely upside down. I like the ergonomics and display on Oceanic computers, but they are not giving me more bottom time.

Most people who dive don't get DCS, even if they do not use tables or computers.

Most people who smoke don't get lung cancer. That does not make smoking safe. Nor does it make any other practice safe just because consequences do not follow 100% of the time.

Most of the time it is perfectly safe to play in the road in front of my house. But I still think it is stupid to play in the road, and I would never call it safe, and send my kids to go play there.

Who gets treated in hyperbaric chambers? Mostly dive professionals: Dive instructors, tropical fish catchers, spear fisherman. People who do repetitive deep dives over multiple days, who ascend too fast (which includes not doing safety stops which are nothing more than a means to force really slow ascents). Does everyone who does repetitive deep dives over multiple days and who ascend too fast get DCS? No, in fact, very very few people get DCS, regardless of what they do diving. Just like very, very few people who smoke get lung cancer.

But since we know the risk factors (deep repetitive dives over multiple days with overly fast ascents) in diving, why not use computer that actually discourages those factors? Very few people get bent, so just save your money and don't buy a computer if you want 'more bottom time'. If you want a computer that helps you dive in a way that acknowledges known risk factors, then a computer that enforces best practices makes sense.

I can rocket up from 100 feet when free diving without any appreciable risk of DCS because I don't accumulate enough nitrogen to make it risky. But when I dive to 100 feet on the fifth straght day of diving, I need to seriously shorten my bottom time from the first day, and I need to ascend ever more slowly. And I need to do a good long stop at 15 feet. And then I need to take about a minute to get from 15 feet to the surface. Or I need to plan on obligated staged deco stops.

Just leave your computer on the hang bar on the way down. You will never run into deco obligations.

 

[Texas Diver]

BeanoJones:

I agree with everything you said on your post but I would add that I have read stories about recreational divers getting bent who only have a few dives or only one dive under their belt during the trip when they got bent

I remember reading on this Board about a 53 year old fireman who arrived on Cozumel after a very long trip from middle America during which he drank lots of coffee. He checked into his room, then went out and ate a hamburger and drank a 1/2 a beer and decided to go diving that afternoon and took a hit on his first dive. Cost about $25,000 if I remember correctly!

Another guy, a 35 year old lawyer from New York in top physical condition, six pack stomach, the works, according to him anyway. He drank a couple glasses of wine the night before, went for a jog and did some push ups and sit ups and had some caffeine the morning before he dove and he took a hit too. Cost about $30,000 I think.

The stories are still on this Board.

For recreational divers I would add the following things to the risk factors:

Diving when very tired
Drinking lots of caffeine before a dive
Drinking lots of alcohol
Eating a huge meal
Doing a big physical workout before a dive - jogging; lifting weights; push ups; sit ups, etc
Age;
Dehydration
Any severe physical changes in your body, like diving right after you came off a a big weight loss program or something like that.

Now I don't know if there is lots of evidence to back up my risk factors but I know I can control most of them very easily so I do. The only one I cannot control is age, I am going to be 62, so I pay close attention to all of them.

I also limit myself to 2 dives a day and I never dive more than three consecutive days at a time.

When you consider if you get bent you are screwed a lot of ways. Your health is impaired for sure, that is the obvious one. But you can argue you did it to yourself so you suffer the consequences, but it does not end there. It is going to cost somebody, your family or your insurance company thousands of dollars, maybe as much as $40,000 if you take bad hit. Consider. You may need several chamber rides, which may last 6 to 7 hours each at a cost of several hundred dollars an hour. You are stuck wherever you are for several weeks Cruz you cannot fly so you need to find a place to live and you are going to need groceries and your laundry done and transportation to and from the dive chamber etc. And you are going to lose work time and your spouse or whomever is going to have to stay with you to take care of you. In other words, you are screwed buddy, screwed big time! And so is whoever is stuck taking care of you!!!!

And I hope everybody reading this buys dive insurance. I will not dive with anyone who does not have it. I refused to dive with my best friend Cruz he wouldn't buy dive insurance and show me his card. If he took a hit I did not want to be faced with the moral dilemma of maybe letting him put $20,000 on my credit card to get treatment with the prospect of never getting repaid or leave him to his own devices. They will not treat you in Mexico if you do not have a verified method of paying them!

So I dive my SUUNTO Vyper and Vytec and their so called 'conservative' algorithm and I never run out of bottom time before I run out of air but maybe other divers would, I don't know.

Incidentally, I rarely dive deeper than 80 feet. I begin my ascents at 750 PSI. I take a minimum of a 5-6 minute stop at 15 feet (even when my SUUNTO usually clears me after 3 min) another minute at 10 feet, another minute at 5 feet (if I can hold it there) and I go from 5 feet to the surface as slow as I possibly can.

Maybe this is over kill, but I am going on 62 years of age so over kill is good, in my view.

I've been diving off and on since 1981. But this is just me and my experience and my way of looking at diving. I am always going to error on the side of safety and I will never dive with anyone who does not show me their dive insurance card.

But, hey, that is just me and my sense of it.

 

[BoltSnap]

Texas Diver,

I'd dive with you anytime!!

 

[scubadiveilat]

Penalties will lock you out for 24Hours. or so. Changing the batteries is a pain.

Consider the Oceanic Atom 2.0 with wireless transmitter or Atom 3.0.

Excellent PDC easy to you and easy to change a battery within 5second flat. Post me for any info or use etc.

Have fun diving and enjoy!!!

 

[Bubbletrubble]

For recreational divers I would add the following things to the risk factors:

Diving when very tired
Drinking lots of caffeine before a dive
Drinking lots of alcohol
Eating a huge meal
Doing a big physical workout before a dive - jogging; lifting weights; push ups; sit ups, etc
Age;
Dehydration
Any severe physical changes in your body, like diving right after you came off a a big weight loss program or something like that.

Now I don't know if there is lots of evidence to back up my risk factors but I know I can control most of them very easily so I do.

@Texas Diver: There isn't much evidence at all. Certainly not enough to recommend "controlling" such putative risk factors for the purpose of minimizing DCS risk.
It makes very little sense to "control" putative (unproven) risk factors...just because you can. On the other hand, there might be very good reasons to avoid certain things on your list because it will make you feel more comfortable during/after the dive (non-DCS-related reasons).

So I dive my SUUNTO Vyper and Vytec and their so called 'conservative' algorithm and I never run out of bottom time before I run out of air but maybe other divers would, I don't know.

Whether the dive is NDL-limited or gas supply-limited probably has more to do with the depth profile and individual diver's RMV.

Incidentally, I rarely dive deeper than 80 feet. I begin my ascents at 750 PSI. I take a minimum of a 5-6 minute stop at 15 feet (even when my SUUNTO usually clears me after 3 min) another minute at 10 feet, another minute at 5 feet (if I can hold it there) and I go from 5 feet to the surface as slow as I possibly can.

You're attempting to paint a picture that you dive very conservatively. Personally, I don't think you're being conservative enough by beginning ascents at 750 psi if you're at a depth of 70 fsw or deeper and you're using a common recreational scuba tank (LP72, AL80, HP100, LP80). It would probably be OK if you were diving a HP119, HP130, LP95, or LP104. I'd recommend taking a look at Rock Bottom calculations and the reasoning behind them.

 

[Seraphimx]

Wow, do you take life-insurance for your dog too? You know, just in case.

Diving with a ¨Conservative¨computer does not make you a safer diver.
I switched to a Uwatec computer not because it gives me more time, but because the Suunto was too ¨Rigid¨. It does the ¨thinking¨for you and it's still a ¨dumb computer¨.

Exemple:
-The Suunto Automatically puts itself in 3min stop at 18ft.
-I start manually my Uwatec when I stop at 15ft, for 3min.

If you take 1min because of current to tie yourself to a line and make your 3 min stop, the Uwatec is a bit more conservative in this case while the Suunto would tell you, 2min remaining.

Recommended safety stop are what they are, recommended.
Don't get me wrong I ALWAYS do them, but when the occasion arises, very strong current, boat going crazy overhead etc. etc. and I need to skip it, I don't want my computer to landlock me because it's a dumb machine.

Computers are TOOLS not THE WORD OF GOD (aka The Bible).