Is safe second really needed?

[captain]

But you'll be earning the dirty looks you get on the dive boat, in my opinion.

I never have.

 

[muddiver]

Ok, how about some not-so-long-ago trained divers that use SCUBA on a regular basis, are better prepared than most newly certified divers, can and do dive recreationally yet are not trained with equipment that includes a second second stage reulator.

Any one care to guess who that might be, and how they are the latest generation of SCUBA divers in the longest and oldest line of SCUBA training agencies?

 

[captain]

Ok, how about some not-so-long-ago trained divers that use SCUBA on a regular basis, are better prepared than most newly certified divers, can and do dive recreationally yet are not trained with equipment that includes a second second stage reulator.

Any one care to guess who that might be, and how they are the latest generation of SCUBA divers in the longest and oldest line of SCUBA training agencies?

That might just be the U S Navy.

 

[Walter]

Muddiver, I have absolutely no idea what you are trying to communicate.

 

[muddiver]

captain wins the prise.

The U.S. Navy still uses doubles without BC and there is no safe-second/octo/redundant 2nd stage on the rig they dive. Most Navy trained divers dive recreationally and their training exceeds the standards of any recreational training agency.

So, if a octo is sooooooo important, why does the Navy dive with out them?

 

[captain]

Captain wrote Well Captain, I think I qualify as one who IS able to judge by this standard -- at least how today's training compares to what I had 40+ years ago.

I honestly don't remember much, if anything, being "taught" about "buoyancy control" but since we had nothing to control our buoyancy except our lungs there probably wasn't all that much to be taught. In the pool you were more-or-less neutral anyway so it wasn't a big deal -- swim down, swim up -- don't hold your breath on the way up.

.

That is exactly the point we older diver try make. There was nothing to teach because it it came naturally in the course of learning to dive. Today's divers are taught to depend on the BC in every situation and they don't learn that it is a helpful tool in some instances and not needed at all in others. Plus the fact that most come out of a class having been taught to strap on X number of pounds of lead whether it the correct amount or not and use the BC as an elevator.

 

[pittyyofool]

captain wins the prise.

The U.S. Navy still uses doubles without BC and there is no safe-second/octo/redundant 2nd stage on the rig they dive. Most Navy trained divers dive recreationally and their training exceeds the standards of any recreational training agency.

So, if a octo is sooooooo important, why does the Navy dive with out them?

If I were to assume, I would say it is because they are taught to rely on there training, be problem solvers, and make due with what they have. And not rely on accessories and wish they were in a golden bath tub.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

captain wins the prise.

The U.S. Navy still uses doubles without BC and there is no safe-second/octo/redundant 2nd stage on the rig they dive. Most Navy trained divers dive recreationally and their training exceeds the standards of any recreational training agency.

So, if a octo is sooooooo important, why does the Navy dive with out them?

If I were to assume, I would say it is because they are taught to rely on there training, be problem solvers, and make due with what they have. And not rely on accessories and wish they were in a golden bath tub.

If I were to guess it would because they are subjected to "cost is no object" training ... the taxpayer pays for it ... their "mission" is different (they aren't training to go on vacation) ... they have direct access to an on-board hyperbaric chamber (making ESAs a lot more acceptable), and because like any other military personnel, a certain percentage of casualties are considered "acceptable".

There really isn't any point in comparing military training to civilian training ... the "ground rules" are just too different.

And FWIW - if some of the fellows coming out of Whidbey Island Naval Air Station and Fort Lewis are anything to go by, military trained divers really don't transition well into decent civilian dive buddies ... it's simply not what they were trained for ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[muddiver]

Yes, you are entirely correct. Boyles law, Charles law, the general gas law, thermodynamics amd hydrodynamic just don't apply to recreational diving, therefore the "ground rules" are entirely different.

 

[Matt S.]

The only thing you owe to the other people on the boat is to let them know what to expect of you in the event of an emergency. There is no requirement to stick to anybody else's idea of "normal".

It's not a requirement, and I do not wish we had scuba police... but I do think it's a better approach to be configured similarly to what Joe Diver would expect, if you'll be diving around him.