Is quick release important?

[victor]

rongoodman
Think about how someone else who is not familiar with your gear setup is going to release your weight.
By wearing your belt under your harness this makes it very difficult to release when you are thrashing about or when he is narced.

The conversation seems to be veering between the desirability of quick release weights vs. having ditchable weight. My XS Scuba weight belt allows the weights to be ditched, but worn under my harness, is it still considered quick release? Does it matter?

 

[Thalassamania]

Nice in theory but like CESA just about useless in practice. Suddenly becoming 20-30lbs buoyant at depth you're going up, you're going up FAST no matter what you do. You are likely to get bent, or embolise or suffer other forms of trauma related to it. If you have even a small deco obligation rocketing to the surface from that depth is likely to turn that into a severe bend. You can flare all you want but if 20-30lbs positive physics take over and things are going to happen quickly and continue to accelerate no matter what you do.

Clearly you've never tried it. I can drop a 35 lb weight belt in 60 feet of water, flare out and exhale to the surface at a rate of slightly more than 70FPM.

 

[Gilldiver]

I use a weight system that can be dropped. This is so I can get positive when I need to, and so I can take my tanks off at depth without being glued to the overhead or heading to the surface. There are many posts about the need to take tanks off, I do not want to debate it again.

I used to use a simple belt but now use the DUI harness system to keep the weight out of the small of my back (3 back opperations require it). The lost weight belt at depth problem can be solved by the use of two buckles. In wreck diving were you have to belly around in tight spaces, it works well.

As for when you need to take weight off in a hurry. I have done it three times, once for myself in a very stressed situation in rough seas when getting positive was a good idea. Twice for helping others, both cases I happened to be in the right place when a diver had problems and needed help. In both cases I droped their belts and then my own. Being posative by 10-20 pounds when pulling/ keeping a paniced diver on the surface is much better then being neutral and being pulled/pushed down. And yes, I did inflate my suit and BC, but if you do that fully your range of motion is limited by the BC pushing your items ( stages, reels etc.) into you at the time you need a full range of motion.

 

[Nudgeroni]

They might sound like those arguments if someone could show corresponding statistics that the benefits of ditchable weight outweighed the risks. Until then, this analogy is poor.

I completely agree that a look at the statistics would be helpful. The results may even go against the common wisdom of using ditchable weight. Usually, however, the argument going *against* common wisdom bears the burden of finding supporting statistics.

I have a hard time imagining how 5-10lbs. of ditchable weight could lead to an uncontrolled ascent (or any other accident). Given that, there is no reason to conclude that having ditchable weight is undesirable. (Although examining the correct amount of ditchable weight would be very worth while)

Raising the specter of a freak accident (again, assuming 5-10lbs.) is not valid-- and brings to mind those folks resisting seat belts....

 

[String]

This isn't about the way you dive it is a question about why someone might want to have ditchable weight in certain situations. Many people dive in wetsuits pretty deep on solo dives and many have no redundancy. For these people, ditchable weight is a viable solution to a bad situation.

Not really. Its a dangerous and potentially lethal band-aid that fails to address the problem at all.

The comment that a person would need to be overweighted if their BC was nearly full at depth is totally wrong. You might argue that they have a BC that is too small, but I know that when diving around 100 feet ot more in a wetsuit with a hooded vest, additional hood, 7 mm farmer john and jacket and mittens, that I am at least 20 lbs negative on the bottom at the start of the dive with no air in the BC. I have been using a wing with only about 30 lbs of bouyancy and it is close to full when I start my ascent from depth, sometimes it even burps a little air out of the over pressure valve when I start my ascent from 200 feet when I wear a thick suit. Am I over weighted? No!

If your BC is full and on the edge of its lift ability its not suited to the task. Simple as that. 30lb wing is more than adequate for a single tank in anything from 3mm wetsuit to a drysuit. Using a single tank you're going to be 6-8lbs to count for the air in it. If using an aluminium tank (why!!) then add a few more for that at end of dive. Then add suit loss of buoyancy and you still come nowhere near 30lbs.

Your comment that suddenly becoming 20 or 30 lbs positive will always cause a diver to shoot to the surface is wrong. I have practiced it many times and can absolutely demonstrate that I can control a bouyant ascent when 25 lbs bouyant. It is not difficult, although most beginning divers probably couldn't do it.

Quite bluntly i dont believe a word of that and until i see some evidence to the contrary i wont believe it.

As for the exercise its worthless. Add exposure suit expansion, air in jacket/suit expansion and the fact its happening from depth and a pool. Its an ascent MASSIVELY above the safely accepted rates no matter what you do.

I have found between 25 and 40 weight belts on the bottom over the years. (I sold about 300 lbs in one shot to the local dive shop and I still have hundreds of pounds of lead). I have no idea how many belts fell off at the surface or the buckle got caught on the ladder when climbing out, but I am willing to bet that some of these belts were intentionally (or unintentionally ditched) on the bottom. Air embolisms are MUCH less frequent than lost weight belts. If a diver keeps their airway open and is not too loaded up with nitrogen, God does watch over MOST of the people that loose weight belts on the bottom.

I assume the god reference is just a figure of speech and you dont truely believe that. However the fact remains that people are potted or worse every weekend through losing belts resulting in rapid ascents and related injuries. Its something that can be easily avoided - make sure the weight isnt going to come off.

 

[Thalassamania]

Quite bluntly i dont believe a word of that and until i see some evidence to the contrary i wont believe it.

You’ve two of us telling you so. I guess we’re both liars.

 

[String]

You’ve two of us telling you so. I guess we’re both liars.

Unless i see proof i do not believe it. Simple as that.

Ive yet to see anyone manage to slow a rapid increase in buoyancy of that nature to a safe level that wont bent/possibly embolise someone form depth.

 

[Thalassamania]

Buy me an airplane ticket and I'll be glad to show you. If it is not as described I’ll pay you twice what the ticket cost, if is as described you pay me the cost of the ticket. As we say in the USA, “Put up or shut up.”

 

[dumpsterDiver]

You crack me up. I don't expect you to necessary take my word (or someone else's) with regard to the ability to control a bouyant ascent by body position, but I gave you a simple experiment to demonstrate the validity of my assertion. Why not try it and see what happens? Can't hold your breath for 30 seconds and do a few simple tasks?

My 10 yr old did it the first time he tried in a 16 ft deep pool!

 

[HenrikBP]

Just another point of reference; I nearly lost my weight belt during my 3rd check-out dive last week. Typical webbing belt with crappy cam buckle that the shop gave me to use. I can't remember if I felt the belt move, but I caught it before it slipped off completely and just put it back on as I'd practiced in the pool. But yes, the standard belt can indeed come off unintended.

I'll be looking for a quality belt with a secure metal buckle.

Henrik