Is it OK for newbs to start with doubles?

[chrisch]

I understand your POV, but I will disagree, you make it sound like taking a pony tank is a bad decision. Just because you have a pony doesn't mean you're in a solo dive mindset. If a buddy has an issue I will hand my pony over and stay with them, or donate my primary to them and take my alternative reg.

You talk about trusting your buddy, and I think trust doesn't have to go both ways. I can dive with a new diver, and not trust him, but he can trust me to be there for him. The pony is just there for a catastrophic failure of my primary air source. You don't need to have a solo diver mindset just because there's a redundant air source available to you.

Here in South Florida we're drift diving, and the visibility isn't always great, like the past few weeks have been maybe 5 feet? Not conditions I want to rely on a stranger in.

I also understand this viewpoint but if you don't know your buddy and don't trust them then they probably don't trust you. In 5 feet vis and high possibility of separation you are effectively diving solo. If only one diver has a pony s/he is OK but the person without is not. For this reason I would never buddy up with anyone with a pony. That diver doesn't need me and doesn't need to stick next to me. Of course, you will protest that you are not like that - I am sure you are not, but I don't know you so don't trust you so will not dive with you. The solution is for me to have a pony. No problem. Now I don't need a buddy thanks.

 

[uncfnp]

I also understand this viewpoint but if you don't know your buddy and don't trust them then they probably don't trust you. In 5 feet vis and high possibility of separation you are effectively diving solo. If only one diver has a pony s/he is OK but the person without is not. For this reason I would never buddy up with anyone with a pony. That diver doesn't need me and doesn't need to stick next to me. Of course, you will protest that you are not like that - I am sure you are not, but I don't know you so don't trust you so will not dive with you. The solution is for me to have a pony. No problem. Now I don't need a buddy thanks.

Off topic but I have to disagree with this based on my personal experience. A bad buddy is a bad buddy, pony or not. To some extent, a pony simply indicates a diver that has given more thought to their diving and ways to make it safer, redundancy with or without a buddy. True. Divers with ponies are self relient regarding gas and many may be diving with a solo mind set but that doesn't preclude him/her as a good buddy that you can "trust."

Now, having said that. If a diver has a pony there is a good chance they don't want to be a buddy and for that reason they would not be my first choice to seek as an "instabuddy." But, in the unlikely event I agreed to be your buddy, I would be exactly that. Its just very unlikely that I would agree.

 

[DevonDiver]

I see no reason why it's a bad idea to start in doubles, if that's what you predict you will use in due course anyway. However, they will take considerably more training from the start and you'd need a technical-level qualified instructor to provide that training. That'll take more time and cost more money in respect of training.

Basically, what you need is a very competent, experienced and qualified instructor who has the experience to combine open-water with an 'intro-to-doubles' from the outset. That'll take some flexible thinking to put together.

Even PADI allow open water to be taught in sidemount, so I don't see any reason why backmount doubles should be veto'd.

The other option would be to learn in single-tank BP&W... then just upgrade to a double-bladder once you're truly comfortable with a single tank. The only cost extra would be a second wing.... the backplate, regs etc would all transfer across. The joys of a modular system!

Whatever the route you take... the path you seem to have set as your goal will benefit greatly if you find a 'beginning with the end in mind' philosophy instructor. Someone with qualification and experience at a much higher, technical, level... who is going to get your foundation skills and equipment right from the start.

 

[cool_hardware52]

- I have a DSS SS BP and a DSS Kydex BP. I paid $35 for the former, complete with LCD30 wing and harness. I paid $20 for the Kydex BP. They are both really nice. I have seen none better. But, there is no way I'd pay $200+ for one.

When purchased as part of a complete rig a DSS plate is less than $100.

Complete Rig ~$465

Less the Wing ~($300)

Less the Harness ~($60)

Less the Cambands ($45)

Cost of the plate $60...................


It does pay to look for a package deal.

We offer a huge discount over buying the parts a la carte because we know the diver will have a better experience with gear that was designed to work together as a system.


Tobin

 

[Buliwyf]

Lots of good advice from Tb, Tobin, et al.

I will also add:

The folks at Deep Six Specialists in Akron are really good people. I have had the pleasure of diving with many of the staff over the recent years on charters. Buddying with them, sharing a table for an evening meal, and just talking with them, they are "real divers". Talk with them as to your hopes. They will put you on the right track. Nice to have a local connection to kick things around with.

Have fun!

Sweet! I'm glad to find someone had a preference between those shops. I'm startled to find so many dive shops, in Ohio of all places. I'll definitely swing by there and check them out. They may even have a double setup to rent. I don't mind paying for extra personal training on the side of the OW training.

I'd like to have some understanding of decomp, if even I'm not ready for such. Just to know what to avoid. I just watched the youtube vid of the guys diving in a river that got pulled down to 110' by current, and they all freaked out and ditched each other, even with no gear failure and obviously plenty of air. One went way too fast to the surface. You could see him passing all of his bubbles on the way up.

I think I'm going to start with a single setup, but I'll keep all my gear purchases with a double setup in mind, as soon as plausable. It'll only cost a little extra, I'll just have an extra primary reg and tank sitting in the corner, then eventually an extra wing.

I'll grab a used or new dual steel HP100 tanks just to make sure I have matched tanks and the weird reverse threaded tank valve for the crossbar. Try both setups, and Ebay what doesn't work. Unless I like both for whatever reasons.

Thanks for the help everyone. I want to get as much learned before training as possible. It so much easier to learn when I'm already half way there. So I won't be overloaded by what doesn't matter, and can concentrate on the important stuff. And I don't want to be the newb that asks for tons of advice, and then follows none of it.

 

[cool_hardware52]

I'd like to have some understanding of decomp,

I'm hoping to avoid any first hand experience with decomp(osition) and diving, for as long as possible.

Lots of good books on the subject of decompression. I found Deco for Divers by Mark Powell to be well written Deco for Divers by Mark Powell


Tobin

 

[stuartv]

I'm hoping to avoid any first hand experience with decomp(osition) and diving, for as long as possible.

Lots of good books on the subject of decompression. I found Deco for Divers by Mark Powell to be well written Deco for Divers by Mark Powell


Tobin

+1 on all points. Great book.

 

[cool_hardware52]

When you get your cylinders to double up.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EcwT46QlPkA<a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EcwT46QlPkA" data-cke-saved-href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EcwT46QlPkA">[video=youtube;EcwT46QlPkA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EcwT46QlPkA[/video]

 

[DogDiver]

To OP question. Unequivocal NO!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[rivers]

I've seen a couple of people start diving in twins right from the get go. But both were on a GUE rec 1 course. If you do want to start straight on twins, I would recommend a private or semi-private class with an instructor who is also an active technical diver and instructor. It will a bit longer of a course, and most likely more expensive, but you really do need to have yourself squared away when it comes to twins.