Is horizontal position really better?

[MichaelMc]

I think the resounding response of "Always? No. Most of the time? Yes." should clear up any apparent confusion that SB is saying "always, yes"

I do most things horizontal as that is where I am anyway. If I'm bored waiting on someone, I'm already horizontal, so I just stay there, there is no reason to work to change that. Once we're set to go, we are likely moving and I'll want to be horizontal, so I just pause horizontal. Or we'll be looking at the bottom next, which is usually under us and moderately close. Plus, when shallow, my suit's thickness makes that extra vertical drag a nice thing. Though if the terrain is canted, I'm likely canted with it. If I want a short 360 view, I likely roll to a laid back position, look around and roll back. Though in sidemount I can arch my back easily to look up and around me without needing to move the rest of my body. When I surface, I want to do a quick and complete 360 to check for boats, so I likely start transitioning to a surface vertical around 10' and watch the water around me as I come up.

I can launch my DSMB in a horizontal position, do my safety stop or clear my mask the same way but what do I get except showing off that I can do it? I’d rather have fun and do things in the position that is the most comfortable and natural for me unless there is a REAL danger doing it this way.

If you're stopped and doing something, the extra you gain is a bit of vertical drag which likely makes your life easier while you focus on whatever you're doing there like mask clear, DSMB launch or just holding a shallow depth in blue water. Plus your lungs will be at the depth of your second stage so you need not fight a pressure difference to breath, reducing a source of stress.

If (generic) you are near the bottom: Keep your *** **** fins away from it. Get level or far away from the bottom. Full Stop. Fix your gear and learn to be level so you don't damage the bottom (the thing you and we came to see) before you come near it again.

 

[Lorenzoid]

The reason I asked this question is because I have read it over and over in SB.

Can you point to one of those posts? I don't doubt some extremists have at some time asserted that one should NEVER EVER deviate from horizontal trim, and @The Chairman said he knows a couple, but I am skeptical it is said "over and over." In another thread from a couple of years ago, the conversation went much like it has here in this thread, where most people say to use reason: THE "PERFECT ( being horizontal ) TRIM" HOAX

 

[rongoodman]

I can launch my DSMB in a horizontal position, do my safety stop or clear my mask the same way but what do I get except showing off that I can do it?

Multiple people have presented various reasons for doing these things while flat in the water. "Showing off" hasn't been one of them. You seem to assume that doing so is making things more difficult, but that doesn't appear to be the case for many and you haven't provided any argument as to why it should be, other than you're less comfortable with it.

 

[Seaweed Doc]

I'm a little concerned at the suggestion somebody fin down if positively buoyant. You should of course dump air, and I suppose if you're comfortable using the hip dump you can fin down and dump from a BCD simultaneously. (Though why dumping a bit of air alone wouldn't be enough, I don't know....) Fin down because you want to be deeper, not because you're buoyancy is messed up.

However, most dry suits don't have hip or ankle dumps. Most have a left shoulder dump. If not completely vertical, you at least need to get your left shoulder up to dump air.

In a "basic" thread I'm worried about students who didn't have great instructors, have issues with buoyancy control, and think they can fin down out of trouble. I have to deal with these folks pretty routinely in dry suit classes and re-train to default to head up to vent the suit. Once they get that through their noggins, then I can work on "nearly horizontal, left shoulder and BCD vent up."

(Yeah, I know some dry suits have ankle vents. Mine does, but I keep them locked shut. There are times when snapping a photo I WANT to be feet up and neutral and don't want to lose a bunch of air unexpectedly.)

 

[Blackcrusader]

Of course, I did not mean to say that vertical position would be adequate when swimming long distances or fighting the current. I think that I’ve read SB too much in those last months. I was like: how come those people who are better divers than me don’t know GUE? Except one guy with 25 years of experience with the US navy who told me he never saw a DIR diver in Koh Samui. People thought I was showing off releasing my DSMB horizontal. I was also very surprised that very experienced divers had jacket BCDs and not BP/W. I got my answer to why releasing the DSMB in an horizontal is better if not more confortable. Thanks @ginti . Last word: diving in Thailand was really awesome. I only knew Bangkok before. Everything in the islands is wonderful for the divers. People’s attitude, weather, food, partying. I will come back in September.

Dive how you want. Whatever position you want is the correct one for you at the time. One of my dive buddies will take photo's of me on dives he get's amused by my positions at times. By having my legs crossed, totally relaxed searching for tiny critters on gorgonian fans, my body tilted at an angle, motionless with no bubble trails.

 

[Ukmc]

And please, don’t tell me that I am gonna die or that you care about me so much that you don’t want to see my name in the AI or IA forum just because I am asking questions or that I don’t always agree with much more experienced divers.

Ok Dody. I don’t know how you do it, but your posts are frequently entertaining and generate a lot of responses. The way I think about horizontal trim is like having good form. Like any other sport, having good form will keep you more efficient and better long term, but there are always exceptions to anything. Being in trim should not be effortful. You should be in your most effective position unless a circumstance calls otherwise.
By the way, when people on SB say split fins will kill you, it is a joke. Neither split fins or jacket BCD or being out of trim will kill you.

 

[Ukmc]

Dive how you want. Whatever position you want is the correct one for you at the time.

Yes, just like golfing, do it however you want to enjoy it, but if you want to improve and maybe reach new highs- may have to get a better form (or trim )

 

[Dody]

Multiple people have presented various reasons for doing these things while flat in the water. "Showing off" hasn't been one of them. You seem to assume that doing so is making things more difficult, but that doesn't appear to be the case for many and you haven't provided any argument as to why it should be, other than you're less comfortable with it.

I dont think that anyone would say that watching around or looking up is more comfortable, natural or practical in an horizontal position. And it easier and less stressful on the neck sometimes. In my view, learning to be neutral in an upright position is almost as important as in an horizontal one and we should not criticize divers clearing their masks, launching their DSMB or doing their safety stops vertically if they don’t disturb the environment. That was really my only point.

 

[Blackcrusader]

Ok Dody. I don’t know how you do it, but your posts are frequently entertaining and generate a lot of responses. The way I think about horizontal trim is like having good form.

I think it's more like the missionary position

 

[MichaelMc]

I dont think that anyone would say that watching around or looking up is more comfortable, natural or practical in an horizontal position.

If I were lying on my stomach on a grass field in a park reading a book in front of me and I wanted to look at the trees, birds and people around me before going back to my book, then the most comfortable, natural and practical way for me to do that is to turn a bit to my left and right on my elbows, gaze about, sigh peacefully at the wonderful day and turn back to reading my book. All while lying comfortably in the grass.

I would find it rather odd to feel the need to get all the way to my feet so that I could be vertical while I gazed about, and more work. If I wanted a bit more height to see further around, sure. But if I did not, why move, I'm quite comfortable lying in the grass.

So yes, I am saying that it is more comfortable, natural, and practical for me to do similar while puttering about the reef gazing at things below and around me. If I want to look directly up, I'll just rotate my spine enough to see that way. If I find something above me I want to look at longer, I'll just roll my lower body to catch up with my upper body and float or swim along belly up.

Now, if I wanted to look at a pod of whales swimming all around me while I was 30' up from the bottom, I'd go vertical and watch them.

And it easier and less stressful on the neck sometimes.

I have good flexibility and a rig that does not impede me in the water. Others may have less or a rig that gets in the way.

So sure, sometimes and for some people horizontal is not best at that moment. As we have largely all been saying.

In my view, learning to be neutral in an upright position is almost as important as in an horizontal one

Learning to have the ability to choose the appropriate orientation is important. Sometimes that is vertical.

we should not criticize divers clearing their masks, launching their DSMB or doing their safety stops vertically if they don’t disturb the environment.

I'm not criticizing divers for being vertical up in the water column. If they want to put on their tank while standing on one foot or do other things that, to me, seem to just make diving harder, I don't care.

I do care if they kick up the bottom because they can't keep their fins and kicks away from it. I care if they use some imagined rigid 'always horizontal' tyranny as an excuse for beating up the bottom.

So if they are just above the bottom and are kicking it up because they are not horizontal, then yes, I do criticize them for that. They need to stay further from the bottom if they can't control their orientation. (Typically by first adjusting their gear so they have a balanced weight distribution.) Or care enough to do so, or stay away from the bottom if they can't for whatever reason.