Info Is DAN Insurance worthwhile?

[SlugLife]

Divers Alert network (DAN) has made a blog post statement

DAN BLOG STATEMENT

This seems like a reasonable statement, and seeking to improve. It also seems to match what I speculated earlier:

I've been avoiding "taking sides" as I don't think there is enough information, but here is a plausible explanation (that may or may-not be true):

DAN is an organization, with multiple people of different levels of experience, knowledge, and training. They're also a business, and no business will just throw cash like it's confetti.

When Woody's symptoms got worse, and Woody needed help NOW, the people at DAN who were available to assist, lacked the expertise or resources to respond quickly and properly, and may not have sought help from others in DAN who could do that. These inexperienced employees likely "do things by the book," and that book says to not put DAN on the hook for potentially paying out millions of dollars. After the incident escalates, Woody arranges his own transport, etc you now have people higher up in the DAN organization stepping into look at the case.

Woody likely was always going to be reimbursed eventually, regardless of his "celebrity" status (or ability to sue). It's just that the wrong people were handling his case, and something in the process at DAN was a little broken.

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Again, this is just an example plausible story. If this is the real story, it sucks for Woody of course, because even if he is reimbursed eventually, what he really needed DAN for was getting the right medical treatment quickly. And if this is the way the story happened, I hope DAN looks into how the process broke down.

 

[galodoido]

Diving safety is up to the individual, not the insurance companies or training agencies...

And yet when we try to discuss these things some we'll say that those are personal attacks to DiveTalk...

 

[auto]

DAN's statement is more than solid, responsible, and way better than most consumer facing organizations. Definitely something corps/orgs could learn from. That being said, as awesome as the response is, have a plan A, B, and C to fix the problem in front of you. My DAN, as well as AMEX Platinum will be renewed again. Global Rescue will be evaluated for 2024-2026 as my travel increase to places further away.

 

[Joneill]

I checked the corrective action points, there is 1 mention of credit card in the whole text anyway. There is a difference between billing and paying by credit card in advance. To me that SOP deviation statement is still a bit vague, they say dan is there to pay, they do not say by any means possible. If they had it in their SOP, why do they make a corrective ap? As reference below text is from faq of my insurance, it is very clear.
The local hyperbaric chamber says it does not recognise the dive card. What should I do?


Most hyperbaric chambers in the well-known diving areas are familiar with aqua med and once you present the dive card, there should be no problems in terms of billing.

If there are ever any doubts after all, please let us know straight away. We will contact the hyperbaric chamber and send them a document confirming the coverage of costs so they can directly bill us for their services. If an immediate payment is demanded at a hyperbaric chamber, we are able to process this through our company credit card. In addition to this, we have partner companies in some countries which can manage the transactions on our behalf if necessary.

The point is that DAN's current SOP was that DAN (not the insured diver) would pay for treatment when needed. The correction is needed as there clearly was a screw up here. As they stated, they are now taking additional steps to ensure there are no future payment issues like what happened in this incident where the affected diver had to pay upfront.

 

[SlugLife]

Given all the posts here that seemed to want to blame EVERYTHING on Gus and Woody without reservation while calling them liars, up to and including some REALLY far reaches that seemed more a reaction to them not liking Gus and Woody's online persona, the fact that Woody is "comfortable" ($) and maybe some "green monster" effect going on... maybe give them a thread where they can complain about Divetalk, and a clickbait title there would be fair play...

Half this thread is people trying to discredit Dive Talk in every way possible, do we really need another thread for that?

I am also surprised that those personal attack comments were not moderated, especially in this thread that is about DAN, and not even accident analysis

The moderators removed a bunch of posts, including one of mine for reasons I don't understand. But there is a moderator here engaging in personal attacks towards Dive Talk.

Actually, if the Dive Talk video is to be believed. They had already committed to reimbursement before the public outcry. They had already admitted to Woodie that there had been a policy breakdown.

Yes. Other than a couple very early comments, there wasn't "outcry" in this thread about whether Woody would be reimbursed.

Now yes dive talk over exaggerated things.

What did Dive Talk exagurate?

 

[feldomatic]

It does speak volumes…it shows a zero to hero mentality which can be part of chain of events leading to an incident. Glimpses into facts such as no p-valve for a 150+ min planned dive in a hot environment means knowingly dehydrating to avoid urinating. This I’m sure is not a one off, as he’s previously done dry suit CCR cave dives in equally hot environments in prior videos.
A lesson that hasn’t been addressed is a progressive learning plan without skipping steps. My tech/cave instructors required drysuits and p-valves..why because they know there importance as you gain experience and progress in diving. Taking a cave class in a wetsuit that knowledge might get missed when a diver decides that due to long exposures they now want a drysuit. That could be a chain in the incident analysis that could have been prevented. It’s not speaking volumes about the individual but the facts surrounding their actions. Believe or not individuals mentalities, personalities and egos are part of the human factors leading to an incident.

IIRC on several Q&A's Woody has expressed a dislike of p-valves typical of folks who had a technology mature around them and tried out the less than optimal early models, which is to say he's a bit cantankerous and superstitious about them.

To paraphrase Brooklyn 99: It's Drysuit time, so Diaper Up!

 

[Boarderguy]

What did Dive Talk exagurate?

They are an entertainment channel and often use widely expensive statements to make their show more captivating. They are the dive version of shock jocks and this time they are the subjects of a react video (again). Unfortunately they have a lot of followers who see them as infallible here and can't let go to properly see that.

 

[admikar]

I'll start this post by stating that all I know about Woody and Gus comes from their YT channel and it is not great. I'm not saying that they are bad people or bad divers, just that I don't like how they present themselves on their channel.

I know of 2 instances where DAN Europe came through, one I witnessed personally and other was told me by a friend.

In this particular case they certainly made some mistakes after the dive (not just 2 of them, but their whole team).
Reasoning that Woody did not want to ruin Gus' dive trip is moot, because he was in no position to decide in the first place (look bellow for case #1).
#1 one of divers in our group lost some weights and made somewhat uncontroled ascent. Luckily was within NDL. He was put on oxygen and after noting some itchiness, local DAN number was contacted.
After explaining the situation we were instructed to monitor the diver and keep them in the loop, ambulance and chamber will be ready if needed.
When diver in question started objecting about whole idea, he was presented with 2 options: if group lead decides he is going for a ride, he can either go or get the sh*t kicked out of him until transfered
to the ambulance. After treatment further sh*t kicking is to be determined by how pissed we are going to be at that time.
Point is, he was in no position to make that kind of a decision and as a result wasn't presented with that option.
#2 Red sea liveaboard (as told by a friend). Diver developed DCS symptoms. DAN was contacted. After explaining symptoms, they were asked about present position, their course and speed. Helicopter picked affected diver and took him to nearest chamber.
In both cases, money was never mentioned.

I think I'll read up on Dive Assure. What Woody went through is exactly the situation that I thought I was protected against with DAN. This is troubling.

Not really different from DAN.

Besides, they admitted wrongdoing.
This does make me wonder what the end result would be if it happened to someone not as influential as Woody?

 

[Josh the diver]

Half this thread is people trying to discredit Dive Talk in every way possible, do we really need another thread for that?

The moderators removed a bunch of posts, including one of mine for reasons I don't understand. But there is a moderator here engaging in personal attacks towards Dive Talk.

Yes. Other than a couple very early comments, there wasn't "outcry" in this thread about whether Woody would be reimbursed.

What did Dive Talk exagurate?

I believe they mentioned feces on the wall of the hospital. I highly doubt that was the case.

 

[ELCAM]

IIRC on several Q&A's Woody has expressed a dislike of p-valves typical of folks who had a technology mature around them and tried out the less than optimal early models, which is to say he's a bit cantankerous and superstitious about them.

To paraphrase Brooklyn 99: It's Drysuit time, so Diaper Up!

That’s prob a bad stance to have…if you do this sport sometimes the first few times with a new piece of gear are uncomfortable but quickly become second nature.
I’d expect to be told “suck it up and catheter up” by my instructor especially for someone like him that’s also an instructor and wanting to do the dives he’s doing.