Is cave diving safer than Open Water

[tursiops]

No, he didn't. Please don't assign such nonsense to such an incredible instructor.

If he didn't say that, what did he say?

 

[ofg-1]

Cave sharks are the ONLY reason why cafes are so dangerous, and you should spread the word with more energy!

I have never seen a cave shark in a cafe. I think that cafes are generally safer than open water or cave diving.

 

[Manatee Diver]

I have never seen a cave shark in a cafe. I think that cafes are generally safer than open water or cave diving.

Depends on who you took to the Cafe. If your date is a real man eater, you might be in danger.

 

[The Chairman]

If he didn't say that, what did he say?

You quoted him.

This is a false equivalency: just because they share a few attributes, doesn't make them equal. He didn't say that deco dives in the ocean are the same as cave dives. They are not lumped together. Being trained for deco does not mean you would be safe in a cave. If I'm on a deco dive, I can start my ascent whenever I choose. I may have a deco obligation, but if my gas situation is dire, I can chance it and continue to the surface, possibly getting bent in the process. Being bent gives me a chance to get to a chamber and live. That's simply not a possibility in most caves and this has resulted in many drownings. Most everything you learn in a cave class will enhance your OW experience. Yet, there are many things taught in OW that could kill you in a cave. There are also skills not taught in OW or Deco Procedures that could result in your death in a cave. It's my opinion that a Cavern class is the best class to take after AOW. But please, please take it from a full NSS-CDS cave instructor, or someone on their way to becoming one. The caves are fully diveable here in Cave Country and wonderful to be in. Water is always a balmy 70°F...

Know all of your limits and honor them. Time, gas, and depth are the most common, but don't forget skills, training, environment, temperament, and fitness.

 

[The Chairman]

I'm talking about the sign at the surface, when you arrive at the site. Here's one:

View attachment 765640

I think most of these kinds of signs have now been replaced to avoid the confusion. They tend to say "cave-trained only" now instead of "no open water divers."

There are many springs in Florida that are diveable by OW divers and are open to them. Orange Grove Sink, which is part of the Peacock State Park, allows OW divers depending on the vis. They are prohibited in Peacock 1 in the same park, because there's no room for them to play. Blue Spring near Orange City allows OW divers as well. However, it is illegal in a Florida State Park to take any light with you unless you are at least cavern certified. There are also underwater grim reaper signs at the cave's entrance.

It's your life and I don't want you to lose it needlessly. Also, I don't want you to become the reason they take away my privileges. Often a fatality causes a loved one to crusade against a site being open. This has happened many times, and most recently at Eagles Nest, a place where I won't even dive.

let's cue Lamar Hires of Dive Rite to explain this better...

​

 

[NW Dive Dawg]

You quoted him.

This is a false equivalency: just because they share a few attributes, doesn't make them equal. He didn't say that deco dives in the ocean are the same as cave dives. They are not lumped together. Being trained for deco does not mean you would be safe in a cave. If I'm on a deco dive, I can start my ascent whenever I choose. I may have a deco obligation, but if my gas situation is dire, I can chance it and continue to the surface, possibly getting bent in the process. Being bent gives me a chance to get to a chamber and live. That's simply not a possibility in most caves and this has resulted in many drownings. Most everything you learn in a cave class will enhance your OW experience. Yet, there are many things taught in OW that could kill you in a cave. There are also skills not taught in OW or Deco Procedures that could result in your death in a cave. It's my opinion that a Cavern class is the best class to take after AOW. But please, please take it from a full NSS-CDS cave instructor, or someone on their way to becoming one. The caves are fully diveable here in Cave Country and wonderful to be in. Water is always a balmy 70°F...

Know all of your limits and honor them. Time, gas, and depth are the most common, but don't forget skills, training, environment, temperament, and fitness.

Not trying to be controversial......... but considering that one of the primary rules taught in OW is to NEVER dive in a physical overhead environment...... what are these "many things taught in OW that can kill you in a cave?"

Also...... Just curious.....Can a person become Full Cave certified without ever even once diving in the ocean?

 

[Tracy]

Also...... Just curious.....Can a person become Full Cave certified without ever even once diving in the ocean?

Yes, I think I was. I don't remember when I started cave diving. But I have less than 100 dives in the ocean ever. Pretty fish aren't my thing. I really enjoy shipwrecks and caves.

 

[The Chairman]

what are these "many things taught in OW that can kill you in a cave?"

Gas management and fin kicks come to mind easily. There are more.

Can a person become Full Cave certified without ever even once diving in the ocean?

Of course.

 

[The Chairman]

Here are some fun skills I've seen in OW classes, that are no-nos in a cave:

Kneeling to clear a mask
Sitting, standing, and even lying on the bottom
Flutter kicking
Hand sculling
Turning around vertically to look for your buddy.
Not using pull and glide when needed
Swimming too fast
Swimming until you hit 800psi​

This is not an exhaustive list, though it is a deadly one.

 

[Tracy]

Swimming backwards

I am guessing you are meaning something different than I am thinking?
Before I started teaching, I never swam backwards in open water. I do it a fair amount in caves and wrecks.