Is cave diving safer than Open Water

[tursiops]

Once again, people love to make their own definitions.

Cave divers define everything NOT in a cave as open water; witness the signs at cave sites that say, "Open water divers are not allowed." People not cave-trained read that as OW meaning the level of certification, so AOW must be OK in a cave, right?

A dive in the ocean to 300 feet deep is an overhead dive if it requires decompression stops. It is a virtual overhead dive.

Jim, however, is defining open water as meaning no deco. He is apparently lumping deco dives with cave dives, as both being in real/virtual overheads.

This is why I suggested (post #126 above) not getting into the weeds; stick with the OP's question -- cave vs open water -- all other things being equal.

 

[PfcAJ]

I'll tone it down, I would feel safer on a 60min NDL dive in Eagles Nest than a 60min NDL dive off the wall in Cozumel. There are way fewer hazards out of my control in the cave.

Now, does the cave have more risk? Probably, but I'm trained to mitigate that.

How you feel doesn’t really have anything to do with how it is.

 

[ginti]

I warn people about the cave sharks, but no one listens.

Dude, really? Cave sharks are the ONLY reason why cafes are so dangerous, and you should spread the word with more energy!

 

[Joneill]

People want to point out all kinds of ways that the simple question posed is actually a very complicated question, because (for example) how do you compare a 300 ft deco dive in a high-current open ocean with an easy jaunt in a well-lined tourist tcave? They are missing the point. When a question like "Is cave diving safer than Open Water" is posed, the unspoken context is, "all other things being equal." So you cannot compare the easy cave dive with the difficult OW dive; rather, you choose the dive (let's say, NDL, no current, not deep) and say the only thing we change between dive A and dive B is we do dive A in OW and dive B in a cave. Now, is B safer than A?

I disagree - we should not have to determine or interpret any “unspoken context”. The Op’s question was far too general for there to be any “correct/one” answer - therefore, folks need to add context/qualifiers to their answers/opinions as safety is very much dependent on the specific conditions being compared.

In my opinion, cave diving and OW diving are quite different activities so I really don’t think that you can easily have an “all other things being equal” scenario?

 

[tursiops]

I disagree - we should not have to determine or interpret any “unspoken context”. The Op’s question was far too general for there to be any “correct/one” answer - therefore, folks need to add context/qualifiers to their answers/opinions as safety is very much dependent on the specific conditions being compared.

In my opinion, cave diving and OW diving are quite different activities so I really don’t think that you can easily have an “all other things being equal” scenario?

Tough choice, isn't it: either "all other things being equal" or else endless weeds and impossible distinctions to make.
In the spirit of the OP's question...do you have a response for him?

 

[The Chairman]

Jim, however, is defining open water as meaning no deco. He is apparently lumping deco dives with cave dives, as both being in real/virtual overheads.

No, he didn't. Please don't assign such nonsense to such an incredible instructor.

Cave divers define everything NOT in a cave as open water; witness the signs at cave sites that say, "Open water divers are not allowed."

Here is a typical sign as you enter a cave underwater...

It says nothing about Open water diver, but rather refers to cave training. It does mention OW Scuba Instructor because they used to be the most common cave victims at the turn of the century.

 

[Joneill]

Tough choice, isn't it: either "all other things being equal" or else endless weeds and impossible distinctions to make.
In the spirit of the OP's question...do you have a response for him?

Not a tough choice - just a question that requires interpretation as there is no one answer. In my opinion, it’s actually more about risks than safety. I’ve already said I think cave divers are nuts, but can think of dives in OW that are equally crazy!

BTW - The Op’s exact question was “I would live to hear your opinion on what you personally find safer and why?” - so the OP appeared to be expecting qualifiers and did not ask for “an all things being equal” answer!

 

[tursiops]

I'm talking about the sign at the surface, when you arrive at the site. Here's one:

I think most of these kinds of signs have now been replaced to avoid the confusion. They tend to say "cave-trained only" now instead of "no open water divers."

 

[Manatee Diver]

It says nothing about Open water diver, but rather refers to cave training. It does mention OW Scuba Instructor because they used to be the most common cave victims at the turn of the century.

IIRC it was the FL state parks that until just a few years ago did use OW and switched to cave trained as well.

 

[Rayk]

I cannot comment about diving itself, but my way of thinking/understanding states that after required amount of training with proper instructor, I strongly believe cave diver is “safer” in the cave than open water diver in the sea or lake.