Is a Student "Entitled" to a Certification just because they paid for a course?

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It makes you wonder how many other people have been granted that false sense of accomplishment. :hm:

Thought provoking. But back in the day.... and even now (as I am working with my daughter through her scuba education), the system I have seen still follows that you have achieved (at least) the basics, and now can continue to learn through experiences. If this is not universally being stressed, then there is a problem.

Its no different then the newly licensed driver.....
 
Thought provoking. But back in the day.... and even now (as I am working with my daughter through her scuba education), the system I have seen still follows that you have achieved (at least) the basics, and now can continue to learn through experiences. If this is not universally being stressed, then there is a problem.

Its no different then the newly licensed driver.....

I applaud you for working with your daughter with her scuba education. I know some of my daughter's and my favorite times have been diving together.

I agree that at the time of my OW assessments I did achieve the basics (at least to my instructor's viewpoint); but that is not to say I truly learned them or was just repeating what I saw a few seconds ago. I did go on and build (and many times learned them to the point of full comprehension for the first time). While I think my point is similar to a driver's license scenario - gaining experience after the license, the difference is with the OW C Card I could immediately go on dives (and be expected to handle myself) that are way above my experience level with only a basic OW course vs. a 6 month driver’s training (to gain practical experience before testing). How many times have accidents been reported and the dive died due to their own disaccords of the basic skills like surfacing when low on air, abandoning a buddy, etc.?


What I see is at least two types of instruction...

1) Instruction where the instructor takes an invested interest in their student's learning. They work with the student until the knowledge had been successfully transferred and the student truly has learned. John has called this subjective education.


2) Instruction where the instructor has the agenda to pass the students. Whether this is driven by time, money, management or whatever, some students might learn the required skills, some might not but all are able to demonstrate the skills at the time of assessment to the level that meets the instructor's goals. Whether they can do it on their next dive, tomorrow, next week, next month or next year or not is irrelevant...they passed at that moment.

Ultimately I know it is the diver's responsibility to safe guard themselves and dive within their limits...not the instructors, dive operators or guides. I just know my OW experience was fair and not what it could or perhaps should have been. I just hope that others who have similar experiences do not have that false sense of ability and seek futher training.

I am beginning to dive into waters I am not really qualified to talk about…diving instruction and certifying agency standards, objectives and requirements. I am not a dive instructor; I am only speaking from my own personal experiences. So I think I will back out of this thread and let the SMART PEOPLE have it.

Bye…and happy trails.

~Me~
 
Believe me, this really is important. This past weekend, I was first hand involved in an incident where the individual that was my assigned (insta)buddy, in all honesty, escaped a significant brush with death due to poor choices, and poor reactions, purely by good luck. I'm still reeling over it (he is 100% fine). This may very well be an instance of choices made above level of preparedness - or should I say "ego"? (notice I didn't say certification - he had the card)... and there was no attitude of overconfidence on his part...
 
Haven't read the entire thread but more than possible for a store to have 100% success rate... be smart with screening before accepting onto course (never said anything about accepting everyone, some people just don't have the right attitude) and give them enough of your time during the course, extending as needed... if their not ready, their not ready.

Sent from my SK17i using Tapatalk 2
 
Believe me, this really is important. This past weekend, I was first hand involved in an incident where the individual that was my assigned (insta)buddy, in all honesty, escaped a significant brush with death due to poor choices, and poor reactions, purely by good luck. I'm still reeling over it (he is 100% fine). This may very well be an instance of choices made above level of preparedness - or should I say "ego"? (notice I didn't say certification - he had the card)... and there was no attitude of overconfidence on his part...

I am glad you made it thru to even be "reeling over it". You can look forward to happier times with your upcoming "new" favorite diver...enjoy the journey with your daughter. :yeahbaby:
 
Thanks drbill.... I had to share that one on the radio show this morning. Great response! I actually had two individuals (from one of our dive shops here) BANG on the window of the station and flip me off when I asked, "How can a dive shop advertise "100% of our students pass their IDC"?" I just have to question that 100%....... really? Everyone passes????


There are no exams in IDC, just evaluations... The exams come in the IE ( Instructor examination) So in effect if you finish your IDC you "passed' your IDC. But that has nothing to do with exams... It says you can do the demos, have the skill to teach a given subject and know some stuff about being an instructor. But you haven't passed the IE yet...

So yes a 100% pass on IDC is possible. It's just meaningless. People call that Marketing. ( a nice word for lying to potential customers )
 
There are no exams in IDC, just evaluations... The exams come in the IE ( Instructor examination) So in effect if you finish your IDC you "passed' your IDC. But that has nothing to do with exams... It says you can do the demos, have the skill to teach a given subject and know some stuff about being an instructor. But you haven't passed the IE yet...

So yes a 100% pass on IDC is possible. It's just meaningless. People call that Marketing. ( a nice word for lying to potential customers )

The CDs/IDCs that I know of would mean IE, not IDC. If a candidate wasn't hitting the right scores in the IDC, they wouldn't be put forwards to IE. They'd retake the IDC/do remedial work, until the CD was very confident of them passing.
 
Thought provoking. But back in the day.... and even now (as I am working with my daughter through her scuba education), the system I have seen still follows that you have achieved (at least) the basics, and now can continue to learn through experiences. If this is not universally being stressed, then there is a problem.

Its no different then the newly licensed driver.....

I've had 3 instructors, and they all stressed that, with some people diving is no different than anything else they do in life, they miss the message. "I've learned everything I need to know".
 

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