Is a God Needed for Morality?

[Bryan]

(But the fact remains that you will go to Scuba Diving Hell if you don't dive --DIR! )

If I don't do the frogkick I'm doomed to burn forever? :furious:

I repent, I'll sell my Xpert Zoom fins and buy XL Jetfins or Turtles... I will, I will! Have mercy!

 

[H2Andy]

well, i had a lot of time to think today (riding my bike back from DEMA), and i got to thinking, what does my morality come down to?

basically, it's this: i don't want to hurt other people, because then i'd feel like crap for doing them wrong.

to a lesser extent, the same is true for animals ... i need to eat, but other than that, i would feel bad killing an animal for "no reason." they have their animal lives, and why snuff them out for no reason at all?

i feel no moral obligation towards plants, but still, why randomly destroy, say, a nice rose bush?

anyway ... i guess there's a desire in me to "do as little harm as possible" to other humans and animals, and even plants at a much lower level.

i guess that's the basis of my morality

 

[Green_Manelishi]

well, i had a lot of time to think today (riding my bike back from DEMA), and i got to thinking, what does my morality come down to?

basically, it's this: i don't want to hurt other people, because then i'd feel like crap for doing them wrong.

to a lesser extent, the same is true for animals ... i need to eat, but other than that, i would feel bad killing an animal for "no reason." they have their animal lives, and why snuff them out for no reason at all?

i feel no moral obligation towards plants, but still, why randomly destroy, say, a nice rose bush?

anyway ... i guess there's a desire in me to "do as little harm as possible" to other humans and animals, and even plants at a much lower level.

i guess that's the basis of my morality

That's all very fascinating but from where do those "feelings" arise? Do you make all your moral decisions based on "feelings" or is there an objective standard, and from where did that arise? What if you lived in an area where they held to a different moral code? Would yours be better or worse? Why?

 

[H2Andy]

That's all very fascinating

i so can hear the sarcasm

but from where do those "feelings" arise? Do you make all your moral decisions based on "feelings" or is there an objective standard, and from where did that arise?

that's the question, isn't it? my idea is that those "feelings" are learned, and i learned them from the culture(s) i grew up on.

What if you lived in an area where they held to a different moral code? Would yours be better or worse? Why?

exactly. they would be different, and would depend on that culture's code

BUT, at bottom, any functional moral code needs to be based on "do no harm to others whenever possible" or that society will not last long

of course you can have disfunctional moral codes (such as, for example, Nazi Germany or the FARC in Colombia) guiding a large number of people on what is right and wrong, with disastrous results for others ... and ultimately, with disastrous results to the group itself ....

 

[Green_Manelishi]

i so can hear the sarcasm



that's the question, isn't it? my idea is that those "feelings" are learned, and i learned them from the culture(s) i grew up on.

exactly. they would be different, and would depend on that culture's code

BUT, at bottom, any functional moral code needs to be based on "do no harm to others whenever possible" or that society will not last long

of course you can have disfunctional moral codes (such as, for example, Nazi Germany or the FARC in Colombia) guiding a large number of people on what is right and wrong, with disastrous results for others ... and ultimately, with disastrous results to the group itself ....

But there are/were(?) cultures whose moral code included befriending then betraying and inviting them to dinner where they would be the main course. Is their culture "disfunctional"?

 

[Bryan]

well, i had a lot of time to think today (riding my bike back from DEMA)

Luckyyyyy!

Did you get to see any sweet dive gear?


http://www.egocheese.com/images/napoleon.jpg

 

[JessH]

But there are/were(?) cultures whose moral code included befriending then betraying and inviting them to dinner where they would be the main course. Is their culture "disfunctional"?

Are you implying that there is something wrong with doing this? I think you should come over for dinner and we can discuss it.

~Jess

 

[Green_Manelishi]

Are you implying that there is something wrong with doing this? I think you should come over for dinner and we can discuss it.

~Jess

I am implying nothing. I once (well, more than once) made a comment in grad school that my instructor described as "ethno-centric" and that I should not be so quick to judge other cultures.

Now that I know you mean me harm I'll decline the invitation, or I'll slip in quietly and surprise you ...

 

[H2Andy]

But there are/were(?) cultures whose moral code included befriending then betraying and inviting them to dinner where they would be the main course. Is their culture "disfunctional"?

disfunctional from an evolutionary point of view

such a culture would never develop trade and will be hampered in its efforts to grow.

eventually, it will go up against a culture that can make friends and allies (and not eat them) and it will get its butts kicked

cultural evolution seems to favor cultures that can use violence effectively but stop short of frightening or threatening the cultures around them (as the Romans learned, you can't CONQUER EVERYBODY... there's always going to be a border)

one great example is the Aztecs .. because of their bloody ways, they had no allies around them when the Spanish showed up. they were basically at war with everybody all the time (yes, i am simplifying)

no allies meant they bought it. their neighbors sighed in relief and threw a party

 

[AXL72]

Factual answer to your specific question, Andy, is:

"Hell no mother f@&*%ng NO!!"

as quoted from God himslef.

He and I were shoooting the chit while we watched our favorite NFL team, the Chicago Bears, do some Giant killing when I asked him that