Is a Computer essential kit?

[broncobowsher]

Going to keep this very simple with no pie in the sky scenarios.
Dive 1 . A planned shore dive to a max of 80ft no deco. In 40 minutes I’m on the beach.
Dive 2 : Same dive following a computer. Like people say the computer takes into account the fact that I don’t spend all the time at 80ft so it keeps me in the water longer (on gassing)
How is the second dive safer. Maybe a lot of so called undeserved kits are caused by computers

It removes the human who can make a mistake running the tables. Not that other mistakes can't be made, they can. We are very good at creating bigger idiots the more times we keep them alive.

If everything goes perfect, there is no difference. It is when things don't go perfect, the human computer does a bad calculation, you will find the electronic computer will not make the same mistake. Thus the electronic version will be less likely to make a mistake. Yes, it is possible, but the human mid is far more likely to make a mistake.

And there is the idiot out there who will pull the battery from the computer to reset it before the next dive. How do you want to factor that into which is safer?

 

[lexvil]

Exactly the same dive. The only difference is one is a square profile using tables and the other using a computer.

Then neither is safer than the other, one may be more enjoyable since it’s longer, you may still be in the water when that whale comes by with her calf.

 

[Joneill]

Next time look around and see is the boat your on the only one. I’ve spent a lifetime at sea,

I’d say that 99.9999% of the time the only other boats that I see are also recreational Dive Ops that would also require computers to dive.

I don’t believe that I’ve ever seen a private boat out with divers. Regardless, unless you know people with boats in these destinations, you’d be on a Dive Op’s boat if you want to dive - so not sure of your point at all (but really don’t care, so will leave it at that vs wasting any more of my time on this topic)

 

[lexvil]

It removes the human who can make a mistake running the tables. Not that other mistakes can't be made, they can. We are very good at creating bigger idiots the more times we keep them alive.

If everything goes perfect, there is no difference. It is when things don't go perfect, the human computer does a bad calculation, you will find the electronic computer will not make the same mistake. Thus the electronic version will be less likely to make a mistake. Yes, it is possible, but the human mid is far more likely to make a mistake.

And there is the idiot out there who will pull the battery from the computer to reset it before the next dive. How do you want to factor that into which is safer?

The computer can fail the human failure can always outwit safety by not ending the dive, knowing the tables can help but still …

 

[Celt]

Then neither is safer than the other, one may be more enjoyable since it’s longer, you may still be in the water when that whale comes by with her calf.

Exactly, the argument that it’s safer to use a computer is wrong.

 

[Celt]

It removes the human who can make a mistake running the tables. Not that other mistakes can't be made, they can. We are very good at creating bigger idiots the more times we keep them alive.

If everything goes perfect, there is no difference. It is when things don't go perfect, the human computer does a bad calculation, you will find the electronic computer will not make the same mistake. Thus the electronic version will be less likely to make a mistake. Yes, it is possible, but the human mid is far more likely to make a mistake.

And there is the idiot out there who will pull the battery from the computer to reset it before the next dive. How do you want to factor that into which is safer?

But it’s the same human using the computer as the tables . If he can make a mistake with tables he can make a mistake with a computer

 

[lexvil]

Exactly, the argument that it’s safer to use a computer is wrong.

It does help in multi dive scenarios yet the computer can’t help someone who wants to screw up, another tool, like a pressure gauge, it has the information but the human makes the decisions.

 

[Centrals]

Why can't you buy a car with out seat belts?

Because they are a really good idea, and more often than not they provide additional safety. Are there instances where they may contribute to death, yes, but they are exceedingly rare. And just like the dive computer on your wrist or console, you can choose to not use it.

And now for a far out scenario in which a computer could save your life. You are found unresponsive but breathing with the reg in your mouth. The good samaritan diver looks at your computer and sees your ndl is 20 minutes, he takes you straight to the surface. You live. No computer he takes you straight to the surface you throw an AGE and die before he gets you on the boat, he did not know you were on your way up with 30 minute debt. Or maybe he decides to give you a couple five minute stops on the way up and the leaky aneurysm kills you on the way up when you had no debt to pay.

The LAW said it.
I won't bother to reply to the rest of the BS.

 

[Belzelbub]

Exactly, the argument that it’s safer to use a computer is wrong.

It can be safer to use a computer, but most often, it’s a matter of convenience.

Diving with a computer certainly doesn’t hurt unless, of course you ride the NDL continually. In that case, tables are likely safer as they don’t give any benefit for time spent above max depth.

Where a computer can be safer is when the dive deviates from the plan for one reason or another. Going a bit deeper than planned, assuming MOD is not breached, is largely a non issue with a computer. You can deal with that with tables, it’s just easier with a computer.

Computers definitely made my diving safer, though. Mainly by keeping an eye on my ascent rate. When I started diving with a computer, I found that my normal ascent rate was a bit quicker than desired.

Of course, any potential safety benefit is based on the presumption that the diver understands the information presented. That said, a diver that doesn’t understand the information, is likely not strong at tables, and most likely unable to make adjustments based on the tables during a dive, so I see this as a push.

I wouldn’t classify a computer as essential, but it certainly makes diving easier and more enjoyable for me. Plus, I can carry less with me. I learned without a computer. My first set had a bulky console with SPG, depth, and compass. Plus, I’d still need a watch, and if I needed to make adjustments, bringing along a table, and probably a slate would be needed. My computer replaces most of that. I can plan and amend dives using the old methods. I just choose not to. I would also imagine that most new divers are unable to plan and amend using tables.

So, I guess, if you know your way around a table, a computer is not essential. If you don, it is.

 

[KenGordon]

Computers are required for safety and insurance reasons and to keep groups of divers on the same bottom time/dive schedule. People diving tables really screw up the boat schedule when they surface 30 minutes into a planned 55 minute dive. And many dive ops include a computer rental in their dive fees, or rent them for about $10/week. Not really a money making margin going on there.....But even if there were, if companies didn't make money, dive equipment and dive operations wouldn't exist. None of them.

These are the sorts of dives where a computer is absolutely pointless. The divers are just following the guide’s profile. The guide plans the dive for the gas limits really probably Has don3 it a hundred times before, they could probably leave their computer at home too.