Investment in R&D by rebreather manufacturers

[happy-diver]

So I continued with my research and thought "I know!" blue hoses is going to be my ticket aboard

Yeah that's the laundry

 

[Capt Jim Wyatt]

NASA & US Navy use some form of lithium for CO2 scrubbers and lithium is fine in a dry environment, not so good when they get wet.

 

[OceanOpportunity]

NASA & US Navy use some form of lithium for CO2 scrubbers and lithium is fine in a dry environment, not so good when they get wet.

there is other chemistry being evaluated - it wont be found on the internet.

 

[KevinNM]

Market forces drive research investments. To radically advance a new technology, there has to be a need. We would need hundreds of thousands of rebreathers on the market to see transformational technology - that said, at this stage of the game the community first needs to improve rebreather education to expand the user base.

I’ve read the ROV revolution has largely stopped investment in R&D in manned diving by industry. The military still does R&D, but their objectives don’t necessarily line up with rec divers. So I’m not sure where the money would come from. There certainly is the possibility of something built for a well-funded navy being very interesting for non-military divers, but that isn’t their intent.

 

[OceanOpportunity]

I’ve read the ROV revolution has largely stopped investment in R&D in manned diving by industry. The military still does R&D, but their objectives don’t necessarily line up with rec divers. So I’m not sure where the money would come from. There certainly is the possibility of something built for a well-funded navy being very interesting for non-military divers, but that isn’t their intent.

100%

 

[SavageSeaCow]

I’ve read the ROV revolution has largely stopped investment in R&D in manned diving by industry. The military still does R&D, but their objectives don’t necessarily line up with rec divers. So I’m not sure where the money would come from. There certainly is the possibility of something built for a well-funded navy being very interesting for non-military divers, but that isn’t their intent.

I don’t think that the type of innovation we need in rebreathers right now comes from super high expense R&D. The limits of our diving are mainly physiologic. Switching to a higher capacity sorb isn’t too big a leap: lithium hydroxide is already used in anesthesia machines. That said it would only be a small advantage decreasing the sorb weight by half maybe. And the limiting factor would be commercial availability. I think the more compelling innovations should come in safety. Designs around improving the faultiest parts (sensors/calibration, scrubber duration monitoring and co2 breakthrough, leak detection/flood tolerance, improved comfort and use ability of dsv/bov/gag straps etc) and human factors (divers are by far the faultiest part).

The other piece is that there is no perfect unit and all companies could be spending some time honing the rough parts of their own design. REvo could for example improve their god aweful adv. for manual units, needle valves are the way of the future and purpose built reliable regs for higher pressure would be nice.

 

[TooCold]

I think a really exciting innovation would be to adapt the technology being developed for environmental carbon capture to replace the rebreather's chemical CO2 scrubber. Eliminate the consumable, no sorb to deplete, no sorb to monitor, no more caustic cocktail risk, nothing to service between dives...

Absolutely vast money is being spent on carbon capture R&D, and AFAIK the most promising technologies involve novel micromembranes. A lot of this focuses on capture of CO2 from flue gases, but free-air capture is also a big deal. That just is separating CO2 from air. For a rebreather, an added benefit could be that membrane separation of molecules could also separate CO, VOCs, etc. along with the CO2.

Way back in 1990 these guys tested a proof-of-concept using a rubber microcapilliary system in a canister about the size of a sorb canister: Removal of carbon dioxide from breathing gas mixtures using a hollow fibre permeator.

Is it already almost possible to do it today with modern high-tech membrane technology? Like for example this? Osmoses

 

[Alekseolsen]

I think a really exciting innovation would be to adapt the technology being developed for environmental carbon capture to replace the rebreather's chemical CO2 scrubber. Eliminate the consumable, no sorb to deplete, no sorb to monitor, no more caustic cocktail risk, nothing to service between dives...

Absolutely vast money is being spent on carbon capture R&D, and AFAIK the most promising technologies involve novel micromembranes. A lot of this focuses on capture of CO2 from flue gases, but free-air capture is also a big deal. That just is separating CO2 from air. For a rebreather, an added benefit could be that membrane separation of molecules could also separate CO, VOCs, etc. along with the CO2.

Way back in 1990 these guys tested a proof-of-concept using a rubber microcapilliary system in a canister about the size of a sorb canister: Removal of carbon dioxide from breathing gas mixtures using a hollow fibre permeator.

Is it already almost possible to do it today with modern high-tech membrane technology? Like for example this? Osmoses

As someone thats only familiar with Amine-based CCS solutions (which I definitly don't want to breathe from!) I was of the impression that membrane solutions had dP in the Bar range across the membrane? Is that not the case, or are we thinking of some sort of "pressure assistance system" in a CCR?

 

[jborg]

Coming from the liquid breathing née breathing reflex thread,

it has been suggested that a liquid breathing system could be combined with a CO2 scrubber connected to the diver's blood supply​

This seems like an area with lots of potential for innovation! Straight into my veins! Or, eh, filtered out of them.