Investment in R&D by rebreather manufacturers

[GF99/99]

Just put a deposit down and all your worries will wash away

You first and let me know how it goes and then ill think about it.

 

[jale]

Brad-Open Safety and the pdf RB...how long it has been going now? 10 years? more?

 

[kierentec]

Anyone have a link to these testing OSEL/Deep Life did on the optima for the skiles case? Was filmed on a cellphone in a ziplock bag and all you could really see was the golden retriever on the pool deck. Pretty good example of the work they actually do vs the PDFs they produce.

 

[OceanOpportunity]

Hello everyone,

I premise that I do not have a rebreather yet, but I am working on it.
After the first and most common thoughts, to date I am very much oriented on the JJ.
When I talk about common thoughts, I am referring for example to the type of rebreather, price, diffusion, agencies adopting it, etc..

Now I was making a different kind of consideration, one that does not necessarily look at the present, but rather at the near future.
I was wondering which rebreather manufacturers are actually investing (more than others) in R&D today and therefore might be at a greater advantage in a few years, perhaps introducing some new technology, model, or evolution of the current ones.

Since I mentioned JJ at the beginning, let's say the first thing that comes to mind is not a company with very active R&D (however, this is just the feeling of someone who knows nothing about rebreathers).

So I would like to know the views of those who have been in the Reb world for a some time, their opinions.


This kind of reflection came to my mind while listening to some talk on Rebreather forum 4, from which I made an important point, namely, that in the next few years there are likely to be major evolutions in the Rebteather world

Thanks
N

My two cents - there really isn’t much ‘innovative’ in the marketplace. Rebreathers have been around for over 100 years. We’ve seen plenty of improved features, but not much new ‘technology’. Solid state sensors are an exception, and I’d anticipate new technology in absorbent chemistry at some point.

My observation is the ‘R&D’ has focused on gimmicky features to help sell, not to provide any specific new revolutionary capability.

In our RD1 program (www.rebreatherday1.com) we went in the opposite direction - strip all of the gimmicky features and offer an absolute basic but high performing rebreather. There has been lots of science applied to its design, but its simplicity is the innovation that we invested in.

Market forces drive research investments. To radically advance a new technology, there has to be a need. We would need hundreds of thousands of rebreathers on the market to see transformational technology - that said, at this stage of the game the community first needs to improve rebreather education to expand the user base.

 

[Johnoly]

To radically advance a new technology, there has to be a need.

Or you need a 'sugar-daddy' who has tons of cash to blow,,,like NASA.
Even though it's not even close to ready for commercial technology transfer to the private sector........
NASA's Liquid Sorbent Carbon Dioxide Removal System has shown it is 4 times the capacity over the current 'sorb' being used. So could a future RB canister be the size of a grapefruit,,,yet still dive longer??

Is it ready to dive? NO ............But who knows, in 10 years you could be diving liquid sorb.

 

[SavageSeaCow]

Hello everyone,

I premise that I do not have a rebreather yet, but I am working on it.
After the first and most common thoughts, to date I am very much oriented on the JJ.
When I talk about common thoughts, I am referring for example to the type of rebreather, price, diffusion, agencies adopting it, etc..

Now I was making a different kind of consideration, one that does not necessarily look at the present, but rather at the near future.
I was wondering which rebreather manufacturers are actually investing (more than others) in R&D today and therefore might be at a greater advantage in a few years, perhaps introducing some new technology, model, or evolution of the current ones.

Since I mentioned JJ at the beginning, let's say the first thing that comes to mind is not a company with very active R&D (however, this is just the feeling of someone who knows nothing about rebreathers).

So I would like to know the views of those who have been in the Reb world for a some time, their opinions.


This kind of reflection came to my mind while listening to some talk on Rebreather forum 4, from which I made an important point, namely, that in the next few years there are likely to be major evolutions in the Rebteather world

Thanks
N

I think if you’re looking at innovation in rebreathers right now divesoft is doing the most. I think the helium sensory bit is a gimmick but they are doing other things that are a bit more useful. For example the predive checklist is programmed into the handset and sinks to a user friendly app on your phone. The heads up ODA and the head both have lights that inform your buddy if the unit is functioning properly and your PO2 is in the right range. I prefer the hybrid/manual function of my rEvo but I admire the innovation that dove soft has done. I foresee them using solid state cells first.

The other company that I see as being innovative is Gemini. Their designs are very simple but quality and they have been innovative through simplification is a highly overlooked way to innovate.

It remains to be seen what KISS does. The promises of new scrubber designs and versatile configurations have not been demonstrated to a broad audience but the prototypes look intriguing and if it delivers at least partially I think it will be a step forward.

 

[happy-diver]

​

Ha ha ha I've got a couple of BG 174s laying around somewhere, haven't converted them
That's a BG174 bottle in my first photo they use the same counterlungmaterial as the LAR

For the blithely enthusiastically information starved

Draeger BG174

Fotos BG174

 

[berndo]

Yes Open Safety offered the Apoc Type IV CCR for US$995 and shipped all of these orders.

So you started out planing to build a 1000 Dollar CCR and ended up with a 18k O2 unit? What happened? Who is buying these? For the reasons gf/99 pointed out it's not a unit that is of interest to the market.

Perfect example I am doing a 160m dive on my very simple JJ. Onboard gas is a 6/75 super deep BO is matched 6/75, deep BO a 12/60, intermediate BO 17/42, deep deco BO 50%, shallow BO 80%, and last stop O2.

I think that would be fairly easy to do with a divecan type system. When you have a gas block with solenoid valves, the controller can tell the block which BO gas to open depending on the depth... question is, who wants such a system and pay for it. At this point im not even sure people would want a CO2 sensor and gimmicks that are on the market already. I don't know but I reckon JJ sells better than Liberty/Poseidon/XCCR... at least I see way more JJs than any other unit in Europe (even without the JJs pushed by the church). Extra functions don't seem to be what most people are looking for.

 

[JMBL]

I see way more JJs than any other unit in Europe (even without the JJs pushed by the church).

Well, think it depends where you live in Europe. I've been diving for 3 decades in France and been involved in so called Tek diving for 15 years or so : the CCR I see the most are AP Diving rigs (in all the possible variations), Revo, and Triton. I know some guys dive the JJ, the SFX, the Shark, the Submatix and even the Mares SCR Horizon, but those are not so frequently seen.

Of course, the selection is probably wider for cave divers, who are not compelled to use a CE certified rig.

 

[OceanOpportunity]

Or you need a 'sugar-daddy' who has tons of cash to blow,,,like NASA.
Even though it's not even close to ready for commercial technology transfer to the private sector........
NASA's Liquid Sorbent Carbon Dioxide Removal System has shown it is 4 times the capacity over the current 'sorb' being used. So could a future RB canister be the size of a grapefruit,,,yet still dive longer??

Is it ready to dive? NO ............But who knows, in 10 years you could be diving liquid sorb.

NASA isn't blowing money - they 'need' improved scrubber designs. It just costs 100x as much in the govt sector as in the real world.

There are other scrubber chemistries already being evaluated both privately and by government agencies. >10x capacity.