Internet gear question

[gregor1234]

Keeping the LDS alive is about more than just "Where am I going to get a fill?" Its also about where am I going to get decent training? Who's going to lend me a BC for this weekend's trip when I notice a tear in the corrugated hose? Where am I going to borrow a pool from to test my new camera before taking it on vacation? Who'll make sure I get my stuff back from annual mantenance in time for vacation when I've waited until the last minute.

If you live in a southern costal area there are probably lots of dive shops or even fellow divers that are able and willing to provide what you need but up where I live or in Cincinati where the original poster on this thread is from, the water is colder, cloudier and deeper. There are fewer divers, less demand and fewer resources available to those divers. The few local shops that exist are a scarce resource and they really live on the margin.

Now with myself and two diving sons, I couldn't afford to dive at all if I had to pay LDS prices for everything, but I'm just saying that I try to throw the bucks their way if I can.

 

[GulfCoastdiver]

I'm just starting back diving and while looking at gear in a local shop, the clerk said that equipment purchased off the web would not carry the manufacturers Warranty. Whereas I try to support the local dive shops, on some items their prices are brutal. What's the deal?

It depends on the site, I got 2 complete sets of dacor sport egale (1st 2nd octo and gages) they where from a factory authorized dealer in tx and I take them to the local dive shop for the warranty toneup, and the other day I got a dive computer for my wife (for a good price from Diversupply).

 

[ScottZeagle]

Could you provide a reference for your claim of voiding of the warranty?

How does the manufacturer disallow an individuals purchase of repair parts? Parts seem to be available from a number of source including ebay, internet dealers, and LDSs. You just have to shop around.

Fixing a regulator is quite comperable to doing a brake job on a car in terms of mechanical skills and hazards of shoddy workmanship. While many mfgrs attempt too restrict the availability of repair parts and documentation, some do not. And most who do are finding their barriers have been largely unsuccessful.

Most warranties require the regs to be serviced by an AUTHORIZED dealer annually in order to keep recieve free parts. The customer will still have to pay for the labor.

If you feel qualified to do your own servicing, we really can't stop you - you just won't get free parts.

I know that Larry @ Scuba Toys has stated here on ScubaBoard that he will sell you the parts if you want to do it yourself.

Disclaimer: Zeagle recommends that you have your regs inspected and serviced annually by an authorized Zeagle serve technician. If you attempt to service your regs yourself, you are on your own!!!!!

 

[redacted]

Most warranties require the regs to be serviced by an AUTHORIZED dealer annually in order to keep recieve free parts. The customer will still have to pay for the labor.

Thanks Scott. I'm familiar with the requirements for authorized dealer service to maintain warranty. I had just never seen anything that says any service by other than an authorized dealer voids the warranty. I'm more familiar with the scubapro warranty which I don't believe say anything like that.

Such a restriction might even be interpreted as preventing one from changing (or having changed) something like a leaking LP hose o-ring or face a voided warranty. I'm just curious as to which, if any, mfgrs have such a restriction.

 

[toodive4]

Virtually every internet site has full manufacturers coverage (many are LDS's with an internet presence) or their own equal coverage (such as Leisurepro). What LDS's should tell you is the simple truth. Somthing like this... "Hello, I'm, Bob the shop owner, I'm here to rip you off, steal your wallet, charge up your credit cards and buy a second home in Tahiti off your dumb self." Not all shops are doing this, but enough are to give the good LDS's a bad name.

I support local shops that charge fair prices, run nice trips and have solid training programs. As I've said before, I will pay a local shop about 20% more for gear if I like them. In other words, if a reg costs $250 on the Internet, I'll give my LDS $300 for it... but anything more than 20% is gouging. You should come up with your own rule of thumb and stick to it. Local shops need your support and generally speaking you need them (for air and the occassional quick item you need at the last minute.)

Hope that clears it up...

Ken Barrick

I'm just starting back diving and while looking at gear in a local shop, the clerk said that equipment purchased off the web would not carry the manufacturers Warranty. Whereas I try to support the local dive shops, on some items their prices are brutal. What's the deal?

 

[mdb]

AWAP, As usual Scott gave you the straight scoop. Repairing regulators is not rocket
science. If you have the right tools and information you can maintain your own regulator just as many folks take care of their own cars, boats, etc. At Apollo we do sell parts and provide service info: www.apollosportsusa.com/Service/Manuals.htm

The better dive retailers have lots of experience and the proper tools and training; they are always your best bet.

 

[dbg40]

LDS's are somtimes a racket, and was told so by accident by a very popular LDS owner just the other weekend. SOME, beat the hell out of unsuspecting new students with "gear they can't live without" offten overselling to somone that will probably only use it a fiew times after the class. Don't matter, push the top shelf stuff to new divers whose heads are still spinning from their new knowledge. Years ago many shops were helpful, in that they sold you basic gear, then rented several different setups to you, so that you could make a relatively informed decision on what was best for you. Some dive shops clean up on the new DIR setups, and push hard to get every new student into it, even if it's not right for them. There's also good money to be made in classes, how many "specialty" courses are there now? Lets face it, locally, a basic nitrox class, costs $150.00 , plus another 25, 30 for books. 7-10 divers in a class, one night, little overhead, = $$$. No, I am not against capitalism, or the United States, or mom, or apple pie. And I fully realize that we are a capitalist economy. But lets face it, diving has gotten a little nuts, and more than a little oppressive to the personal budgett. You could make the arguement that internet sales are hurting the LDS, and to an extent it's true. But on the other hand, if a shop prices diving out of the hands of people that can't afford to spend as much $, then the divers will dissapear. A double edge sword. I do use one (mostly) LDS where I live, and am treated like gold, fantastic folks and I buy all that I can there. I also buy used, and online, because it' much less expensive to do so. I'ts MY money. Top end dive gear is so good these days that a warranty means little to me, and I would probably trade in a reg before I spent, on parts for service, what I saved on the initial cost of the reg. So no, I dont think I would end up with a free reg in the long run. Support your GOOD, lds, but spend your money wisely, you made it.

 

[DallasNewbie]

I don't think there is any danger of the LDS going away. Some will adapt, like Scubatoys, and some will go under. As long as divers are willing to pay for air, someone will sell it to them. It may be that you get it from a small air and emergency kit only shop near your favorite dive shop, but it will be available. It may be that what people are really worried about is that LDS will sell less gear, and fewer people will be susbsidising the air fills. I don't know much about the dive industry, but I do know that for a landlocked city with no diving whatsover within at least an hours drive, there are plenty of LDS in Dallas. And the only diving around here is at dive parks, which all sell their own air. Scubatoys is an LDS here, and even with their internet prices in a convinient storefront, they haven't put the rest of the shops out of business. I think there will always be plenty of people who'll find the closest shop in the yellow pages, and pay whatever price they are asking.

 

[Thrawn]

I went to one of the local LDS's around here and was asking about some of the customizations that could be done to a Zeagle BCD. I made the mistake of mentioning one I had seen on ScubaToys.com. As soon as he heard the word internet he started launching into a tirade about "...any dealer that sells or even advertises [this equipment] online is no longer an authorized dealer... the mfgr warranty is voided... that's how strict these manufacturers are..."

Funny thing is; I was asking him to look up the type of customization on the internet to see if they (the LDS) could order the same from Zeagle... NOT LIKELY ANYMORE. I hate being lied to. bleh!

 

[redacted]

The better dive retailers have lots of experience and the proper tools and training; they are always your best bet.

I appreciate the response and the link, but after some bad experiences with LDS tech service, I have been DIY for the last 6 years with no problems or surprises.

I did research the question of which mfgrs void their warranty if unauthorized service occurs and found only Oceanic, of the 8 I researched, has such a stipulation in their warranty. All other require periodic inspection or service by authorized facilities to maintain warranty but don't specifically prohibit other service. Some stipulate they do not cover damage caused by unauthorized service, but that's reasonable.

I liked your site and the documentation that you make available. What is your company policy on the sale of parts? Does your company have any prohibitions or restrictions on dealers selling parts to their customers? It appears that Scubatoys is one of your dealers although your site seems to list them under another name (2 Dive 4).