Interesting history of DIR debate. . .

[James connell]

detroit diver once bubbled...


You have nothing to offer but arguement about DIR.

I rest my case. Kool-aid anyone?

i'm glad you rested your case because you were proving yourself a fool.

my only argument is with the statement (and not by you) that trim can't be "mastered" EXCEPT by takeing a dir/gue class. that's pure unadulerated .
why do people have trouble?
i think it's the sheep mentality - the inability to learn without someone telling you how.

proper trim is easy to do - but it does require experimentation. if you don't dive a BP/wing ( and even that is not DIR, i was diving a BP before there were BCs), it's harder to perfect but not impossible.

you want to start with a horizontal position (at rest, and with neutral buoyancy) in the water. if you tend to slowly (and maybe not so slowly) turn to a head up position move the weight up and/or move the BC bladder down. if you go the opposite way do the opposite - weight down and or bladder up. you can see why a jacket BC can make this more difficult - harder to adjust the bladder posistion, and the weights don't move much. an option ( if you can afford the exrta ballast) is to place a few small weights in the proper areas. also moving the bottle up and down can effect a change.

now you can position your body in any ( pitch) attitude in the water column and it will remain that way.
next is side to side trim - that lets you turn on your side without the rig trying to roll you onto your face. turn onto your side from a face down horizontal nuetral position - if the trim is right you will stay that way without rolling back to your face down or without turning to your back,( it's very common for a rig that you think is "trimmed", once you get to your side to roll tank down). if it rolls you then you need to make some other adjustments. if it's face down move the weights back towards the tank, face up move towards the front.
all this is easiest to do with the BC empty because as you change attiutde in the water the bubble of air in the BC will shift - changing your center of buoyancy ( same thing happens in a drisuit only more so). the smaller the BC bladder the less the bubble can move so you want to dive the smallest bladder that suits conditions. also all these checks need to be made with your "STD" setup as any changes you make in gear ( at least if they are not nuetralby themselves in the water) will change your trim.

if you'd like i'll explain in baby talk how to "Scull"
ut:

 

[bwerb]

PhotoTJ once bubbled...


If, as you postulate, the 99% just dive Cancun once a year, exactly why are they a problem? They don't dive with you, and you don't dive with them.

Where is the conflict?

Many, many, many of them take their initial OW courses locally prior to heading out to warmer environs. Each and every week a new batch from numerous shops who will likely never dive locally again show-up at local dive sites. I see them every time I go out. Think about your "local dive site"...what is the percentage of OW/AOW students versus the number of dedicated weekly divers? Since local dive sites are more often then not popular for a reason...if all the students you see weekly were to continue diving locally, you wouldn't have been able to park as close as you did this week.

Why are they a problem? Because as divers, guess what...we like to dive in the tropics as well. Silt-outs are unpleasant but manageable in OW. Killing coral makes the dives less pleasant for the next divers. Both these pale next to watching once a year divers having frightening and dangerous experiences when they do go out diving. Watching a diver sucking like a remora on a DM's octopus while trying to bolt to the surface because of poor air monitoring skills is no fun for the diver or those watching (I find it incredibly sad that this person is in terror and didn't need to be). I find it sad when these divers are struggling so much with their trim and bouyancy that they burn through the air in their tanks in a fraction the time they should...and on many boat trips this means the end of the dive for me as well if the DM is responsible for calling the dive when the first person runs low on gas. I find it sad when divers are so exhausted and have that "crappy end of the dive day blah feeling" because they corked to the surface from 15 or 20 feet after their "safety stop" and effectively halved the outside pressure on their bodies in 10 seconds...that feeling is but one sign your body is giving you that you surfaced too quickly.

My point...I do dive with the 99%...they may not be a part of my team on a weekly basis but their diving affects my dive environment, on certain trips my dive time and on a deeper note, my spirit. I know that they could be having way way more fun than they are and it pains me to see some of their struggles...I had them myself until I was shown step-by-step by more experienced divers how to become way more competent in the water. Is DIR the ONLY WAY to achieve this? I blaspheme but...NO. Is it a phenomenal short-cut...you bet.

See you in the water.

Brian

 

[RichLockyer]

Knavey once bubbled...
I was reading Irvine's Equipment List and was wondering why he advocates nothing written (or stuck) to your tank except your name.

What is the reasoning behind that?

Stickers and such can obscure damage, as well as promote damage by trapping water and salt.. same as a boot (which is verboten as well).

Obviously, those of us not able to do our own fills require a VIP sticker.

It's not a bad idea for the sticker to be affixed so that it is directly under the valve face... three reasons... it's right there, easy for the filler to see without having to spin the tank looking for it, it is protected from damage by impact (while on the BC), and it's one less thing to distract your buddy or clutter an U/W photo.

 

[RichLockyer]

WaterDawg once bubbled...
I know that they put the MOD of each tank (depending on the gas mix) so keeping it unclutered would make it easy to read.

Only stages/deco... NOT on the back gas.

 

[WaterDawg]

PhotoTJ once bubbled...


Two points.

1. YOU believe. Most people dive the way they do because they like it, it works for them. THEY believe that their configuration is fine.

2. All would benefit? Hmmm, maybe. But if I only drive to church on Sunday, do I need to go to the Bob Bonduraunt school of stunt driving? Doubt it.

Here's an engineering point of view.

If it works, leave it alone. Good enough is always good enough, while perfect is a pain in the a$$, and usually not that much better.

Why do the acolytes persist in trying to convert those who have no desire to be converted?

In your first point you just repeated what I said.
In your second point you glorify DIR-F! Its fundamentals, not Tech-1 or anything crazy just good ole' fundamentals.
And if its good enought dont mes w/ it? Where whould we be if we all had that mentality???

 

[WaterDawg]

RichLockyer once bubbled...

Only stages/deco... NOT on the back gas.

Ya your right I forgot.

 

[El Orans]

Cave Diver once bubbled...
Regarding the origins of DIR, I have an article that I wrote to explain a lot of the history, concepts and practices of DIR advocates. It has been cross posted here, or if anyone wishes, PM me with an email address and I will forward it to them.

It also contains several good links to other sites with additional information and pictures.

Having read the above mentioned article I must admit that it has given me a better idea of what DIR is. Some of the practices that are recommended such as doing your exercises while OFF the bottom hadn't occurred to me but I'll start practising them on the next dive. Others like staying close to and communicating with your buddy where one of the first things my instructor taught me.

I don't think that I'll be doing dives this century complicated enough to warrant using the complete DIR-methodology but the article contains enough information to keep improving my diving skills for the next couple of years.

 

[Cave Diver]

El Orans once bubbled...


Having read the above mentioned article I must admit that it has given me a better idea of what DIR is. Some of the practices that are recommended such as doing your exercises while OFF the bottom hadn't occurred to me but I'll start practising them on the next dive. Others like staying close to and communicating with your buddy where one of the first things my instructor taught me.

I don't think that I'll be doing dives this century complicated enough to warrant using the complete DIR-methodology but the article contains enough information to keep improving my diving skills for the next couple of years.

I'm glad that you found the article helpful.

I think that as you continue trying to improve your diving you will find that more of those skills become "necessary" than you ever imagined.

Good luck!

 

[detroit diver]

James connell once bubbled...


i'm glad you rested your case because you were proving yourself a fool.

my only argument is with the statement (and not by you) that trim can't be "mastered" EXCEPT by takeing a dir/gue class. that's pure unadulerated BULLS!@#.
why do people have trouble?
i think it's the sheep mentality - the inability to learn without someone telling you how.

proper trim is easy to do - but it does require experimentation. if you don't dive a BP/wing ( and even that is not DIR, i was diving a BP before there were BCs), it's harder to perfect but not impossible.

you want to start with a horizontal position (at rest, and with neutral buoyancy) in the water. if you tend to slowly (and maybe not so slowly) turn to a head up position move the weight up and/or move the BC bladder down. if you go the opposite way do the opposite - weight down and or bladder up. you can see why a jacket BC can make this more difficult - harder to adjust the bladder posistion, and the weights don't move much. an option ( if you can afford the exrta ballast) is to place a few small weights in the proper areas. also moving the bottle up and down can effect a change.

now you can position your body in any ( pitch) attitude in the water column and it will remain that way.
next is side to side trim - that lets you turn on your side without the rig trying to roll you onto your face. turn onto your side from a face down horizontal nuetral position - if the trim is right you will stay that way without rolling back to your face down or without turning to your back,( it's very common for a rig that you think is "trimmed", once you get to your side to roll tank down). if it rolls you then you need to make some other adjustments. if it's face down move the weights back towards the tank, face up move towards the front.
all this is easiest to do with the BC empty because as you change attiutde in the water the bubble of air in the BC will shift - changing your center of buoyancy ( same thing happens in a drisuit only more so). the smaller the BC bladder the less the bubble can move so you want to dive the smallest bladder that suits conditions. also all these checks need to be made with your "STD" setup as any changes you make in gear ( at least if they are not nuetralby themselves in the water) will change your trim.

if you'd like i'll explain in baby talk how to "Scull"
ut:

Let's see. Diving according to James Connell, or diving according to GUE. I'll let others make their own choices here.

 

[James connell]

detroit diver once bubbled...


Let's see. Diving according to James Connell, or diving according to GUE. I'll let others make their own choices here.

ah yes, closed minded you remain.