Instructors - what is acceptable for a verified dive log?

[Slaveeye]

Why would anybody fake dive logs? They are only cheating themselves.

Plus sometimes experience can be hit or miss. Depending on individual divers. For example I took a group out last year to the V.I.'s and had a dive couple join us for a day of diving. Their credentials and lists of past dives was pretty impressive. So I thought they were good experienced divers. So to the site and off the boat we go. The wife was the first one to bounce off the sandy bottom mucking up the viz and started walking on her fins in a vertical position while trying to use her arms and hands to propel her through the water. My group assumed she was a sponge diver or a decendent of the creature from the black lagoon. At least it gave me a great example to show my class on how not to dive.:fruit:



:speargun:

 

[Damselfish]

Why would anybody fake dive logs? They are only cheating themselves.

Plus sometimes experience can be hit or miss. Depending on individual divers. For example I took a group out last year to the V.I.'s and had a dive couple join us for a day of diving. Their credentials and lists of past dives was pretty impressive.

maybe they faked the list?

 

[pir8]

I'll take whatever logs you show me but its the interview with me thatsimportant. Thats whats gonna tell me what you're ready for. You can tell by the way they're talking to you in most cases. Not all but most.

 

[MauiScubaSteve]

Why would anybody fake dive logs? They are only cheating themselves.

Faking logged dives is probably going on every month in this industry. PADI DM & OWSI training requires 20/60 logged dives respectively to start the class, and 60/100 logged dives at completion. Definition of a dive is something like the following; 15' for 15 minutes (?20' for 20?) or 1500 psi used (?50cft?). Other agencies have mostly similar standards, but some are higher.

There are plenty of candidates who bounce to get the required number for certification. Not sure but what gear disassembly/assembly might also be required in between, I'm pretty sure it is in OW (I always require it).

After my IANTD Dolphin cert, my intsructor (who was also IT) Talked to Tom Mount about the 250 hours(?) logged RB dives requirement to be instructor (each specific RB). I had done over 20 RB dives at that time (thinking PADI specialty ) and my instructor had the highest confidence in my skills.

During that phone conversation (I heard only one side), Larry also asked Tom if he did the required 30(?) dives per year on all the RB's he was certified to teach. After that call, Larry just looked at me and shrugged, no more was said. When I finally returned to Hawaii, Joe Dituri had just started a Dolphin instructor class at the new standard of 50 hours(?) logged Dolphin dives. Also heard that Tom dropped some of his RB instructor certs for units he does not dive regularly.

If I had not been delayed by 9/11 airline woes, I would have been sorely tempted to fudge the few logs required to start that class. Good thing actually, as the market for Dolphin instructors is not very strong and the cost to stay current is prohibitive.

Other than my OW training dives, I never logged dives. When I did my PADI DM/IDC, I was given a log book and told I could log enough of my pre-OW cert dives (dad taught me), so I dredged up 90 from ancient memory cells (all unsigned) and they were accepted. Mine were not fake, but they easily could have been. The IDC staff was not concerned, if I was not competent they would drum me out (like the 6 month bounce diver in my class).

Log books are mostly just for yourself, but faking them happens all the time.

 

[24940]

Why would anybody fake dive logs? They are only cheating themselves.

I heard of an instructor who didn't have the requisite dives to certify and racked up the dives on his computer by doing :15 down, :10 up at the end of a boat ramp, in <20' till his computer registered th requisite number of dives.

IMO, he cheated his students. In my experience, the most valuable aspect of an instructors knowledge comes from his experiences.

 

[shurite7]

I dive log must be taken with caution although, most people are not deliberately falsifying their logbook.

As mentioned above, the interview and observation of the individuals dive practices told me more than what their logbook did.

c

 

[ahava]

Im firmly of the view logs are for personal use to the diver alone for things such as site information, hazards,currents,notes on the site and so on and of no use to anyone trying to gauge experience.

My feelings exactly. Although as a instructor we need to see them.

 

[talonraid]

I will start by announcing I am not an instructor, and I have a twist to this discussion:

I know of a dive shop that tells Divemaster candidates and even instructor candidates to falsify their log books to make sure they at least have the prerequisite number of dives on paper. I know many students who have complied and only a few that refused. The point the dive shop in question makes is that they know these students and know they are good divers despite the lack of logged dives.

I don't necessarily agree with their point of view, but I can understand their thinking. I think that the minimums are there for a reason. However, if the student demonstrates the proper skills and ability throughout the course, are they less qualified than someone who has the minimum number of logged dives but lacks skills?

 

[24940]

I However, if the student demonstrates the proper skills and ability throughout the course, are they less qualified than someone who has the minimum number of logged dives but lacks skills?

Yes, they are less qualified. Here's why: Skills can be taught and mastered in a fairly short time... They are pretty simple. Experience can not. Experience can provide countless ways to illustrate a single concept and that is critical for reaching as many different people as possible. That is just one of many reasons.

 

[Al Mialkovsky]

I heard of an instructor who didn't have the requisite dives to certify and racked up the dives on his computer by doing :15 down, :10 up at the end of a boat ramp, in <20' till his computer registered th requisite number of dives.

IMO, he cheated his students. In my experience, the most valuable aspect of an instructors knowledge comes from his experiences.

I do recall that happening and I'm probably the guy that told you the story. There were two of them who did this together. One of them ended up being a horrible instructor, the other turned out to be someone I'd trust with someone I care about.

But yes they cheated in my book. They didn't get the experience you really need to be a solid instructor. Even if you're a genius you can't experience much with a minimum number of dives. I wish it were more like 500 dives and also a minimum of 5 years diving. These 30 day wonders scare the heck out of me.