Instructors - what is acceptable for a verified dive log?
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A good reason to do a little homework on your instructor..
shotthebreeze
Contributor
I understand the minimum number of dives and I actually agree with there being a minimum to start some courses, so don't take this the wrong way. Perhpas there should also be an "early start" waiver available for some divers as well.
I think that each individual needs to be looked at without trying to fit them into a mold. I know some relatively inexperienced divers who are absolutely fantastic in the water. Some with fewer than 50 or dare I say even 30 dives (gasp). I also work with a young lady who is a certified instructor for 2 different agencies that I won't mention just to avoid that spear. I remember when she was going through Divemaster training with well over 150 dives under her belt. She couldn't focus and had a student swim off from her at the platform and she never even realized they were gone. Luckily my buddy was the other divemaster and was watching his group and hers because he knew her aptitude as well. The errant student was herded back to the flock. She actually asked what had happened when we were between dives. I think she had some sort of "halo" effect with the instructor she had because she passed. Sad.
Now she's an instructor. She probably has 200 or more dives. She doesn't want a Divemaster to help with her classes and she routinely asks the Divemasters not to come back to the pool area while she's teaching because she doesn't want anyone to watch her. WTF? A good DM with time on his or her hands always pops back into the pool area to see if a class needs help or wants another DM to splash with them. A good instructor will always snag an available DM to help with a class or just to act as a an additional safety diver. She told me yesterday she doesn't mind if the students are watching, but doesn't want a DM to watch because the DM might notice her make a mistake. I don't own the store, but if I did this young lady would never teach another student.
So, I suggest that a good diver from the beginning is probably someone who is mature, psychologically sound and confident. Their skill will definitely improve with more dives, but the number of dives should in no way be the only measuring stick. Many people are just as good at 50 dives as some experienced divers at 100, 200, 500 or more. I dove in Chac Mool Cenote two weeks ago with a guy that had been diving for over 17 years and according to him nearly 1000 dives (I didn't check his logbook). I was mad and more than a bit emberassed that here was this North American bouncing from staligtite to silty bottom in one of Mexico's national treasures for the rest of the afternoon. That is when he wasn't finning straight up to keep from sinking any time we stopped to see something.
I think that each individual needs to be looked at without trying to fit them into a mold. I know some relatively inexperienced divers who are absolutely fantastic in the water. Some with fewer than 50 or dare I say even 30 dives (gasp). I also work with a young lady who is a certified instructor for 2 different agencies that I won't mention just to avoid that spear. I remember when she was going through Divemaster training with well over 150 dives under her belt. She couldn't focus and had a student swim off from her at the platform and she never even realized they were gone. Luckily my buddy was the other divemaster and was watching his group and hers because he knew her aptitude as well. The errant student was herded back to the flock. She actually asked what had happened when we were between dives. I think she had some sort of "halo" effect with the instructor she had because she passed. Sad.
Now she's an instructor. She probably has 200 or more dives. She doesn't want a Divemaster to help with her classes and she routinely asks the Divemasters not to come back to the pool area while she's teaching because she doesn't want anyone to watch her. WTF? A good DM with time on his or her hands always pops back into the pool area to see if a class needs help or wants another DM to splash with them. A good instructor will always snag an available DM to help with a class or just to act as a an additional safety diver. She told me yesterday she doesn't mind if the students are watching, but doesn't want a DM to watch because the DM might notice her make a mistake. I don't own the store, but if I did this young lady would never teach another student.
So, I suggest that a good diver from the beginning is probably someone who is mature, psychologically sound and confident. Their skill will definitely improve with more dives, but the number of dives should in no way be the only measuring stick. Many people are just as good at 50 dives as some experienced divers at 100, 200, 500 or more. I dove in Chac Mool Cenote two weeks ago with a guy that had been diving for over 17 years and according to him nearly 1000 dives (I didn't check his logbook). I was mad and more than a bit emberassed that here was this North American bouncing from staligtite to silty bottom in one of Mexico's national treasures for the rest of the afternoon. That is when he wasn't finning straight up to keep from sinking any time we stopped to see something.
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fisherdvm
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The comment on the skills of the instructor makes me think. Do you want an instructor who is a natural at diving, swimming, math, science, etc? Or do you want one who is a slow learner that struggles to attain the "instructor" status?
I have seen "lousy" swimmers who are great swimming teachers. And great swimmers who are lousy teachers. The term "lousy" is used loosely here. What I mean is if you are a "natural" at a skill - whether it is scuba, judo, math, or swimming - you might not appreciate the finer points of being a teacher - because you can not relate to the student.
Not to pop anyone's bubble .... but there is room for weak divers ... ones who struggles through scuba skills ... to be great instructors. Perhaps only when you failed, then you can empathize and have patience when you see a student struggle.
Geniuses probably makes lousy teachers. But, no doubt, the more experience one has, the more one impart on his/her students.
I have seen "lousy" swimmers who are great swimming teachers. And great swimmers who are lousy teachers. The term "lousy" is used loosely here. What I mean is if you are a "natural" at a skill - whether it is scuba, judo, math, or swimming - you might not appreciate the finer points of being a teacher - because you can not relate to the student.
Not to pop anyone's bubble .... but there is room for weak divers ... ones who struggles through scuba skills ... to be great instructors. Perhaps only when you failed, then you can empathize and have patience when you see a student struggle.
Geniuses probably makes lousy teachers. But, no doubt, the more experience one has, the more one impart on his/her students.
I agree...how can you pass on a skill to someone who is struggling when you just did it naturally....those who struggled initially are the best teachers
The reason many agencies are getting away with low required dives for instructor credentials is that gifted teachers do not have to have thousands of dives to teach well. There are plenty of divers who waited until they had a thousand dives or more before they did their DM, and that does not mean they made better instructors than the gifted zero to hero who both learns quickly and has a knack for teaching.
Everyone is different, and the best instructor trainers are not as interested in the "not enough dives to teach diving" BS as all the thousands of bad dives know-it-all's who have never taught. :no
Genius is not all encompassing. There are basketball geniuses (MJ), golf geniuses (Tiger), photography geniuses (Adams), art geniuses (Michelangelo) and science geniuses (Einstein). There are also teaching geniuses, but face it, diving is not rocket science. All you really have to be is a really good teacher who is passionate about diving and it does not matter if you were a fish or a flounder when you started.
Actually, it seems that the quality shops already have the option. Why? Because their requirements are above and beyond those in the standards.
Take a shop normally requires twice the standards-defined minimum number of dives. Let's say they find a prospective DM candidate that has excellent skills and has been on more varied dives than their usual starting DM candidates (who may need a bit of prodding to find time to dive outside Cozumel). If the shop decides that the diver is ready, they can accept the diver "early" and still be beyond the required standards.
(I know this is how my LDS works.)
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