Instructors: teaching neutrally buoyant

[boulderjohn]

A good example was one instructor I assisted requiring OW students to do the 10 minute float and not allowing drown-proofing (or else they "fail"?).

I would bet quite a bit that he was just plain misinformed rather than raising the bar. Many people refer to this exercise as "treading water" or "floating," although neither term is used in the standard. Since they have in their mind that the exercise is named "treading water," then, by golly, they had better be treading water. According to the standards, the only real requirement is not drowning. I used to tell students that if they drowned during the exercise, they automatically failed the class.

I would also bet the overwhelming majority of instructors are mistaken about at least one standard, and many are mistaken about more than a few. What happens is that whoever conducts the IDC that trains the instructors teaches them to teach certain skills the way the trainer does it. When they become instructors, they teach the way they were taught, and they get the idea that every step is required. The actual standards for most skills are written intentionally vaguely to allow different acceptable methodologies. A good example is the alternate air exercise, where the wording allows any of the normally accepted methods of sharing air.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

I dont think you are understand. First skill is trim/neutral buoyancy. first is teaching the diver proper trim, (this obviously starts on the deck). using the bottom of the pool you get the new diver in the "proper trim", then have them start adding gas to the wing to bring them off the bottom. They come off the bottom, they are in trim and neutral. In my daughter's class, she and the other student had trim/buoyancy within 30 min.

At that point, no more bottom, all other skills (basic 5, gas sharing, smb launch) are done in neutral buoyancy and holding trim.

No kneeling, no skills are done on the bottom.

When I was at PADI and had a discussion with my regional training consultant (Bret Lorea), he informed me that if I placed students on the bottom of the pool and took weight off until they floated midwater, that'd be a standards violation, as that is quite close to the CW3 exercise where they hover after inflating their BCD.

I focused on having students lay face down, adding weight (they held it with their hands so they couldn't scull) until they would sink on exhale and remain there. Of course distribute weight to keep them horizontal.

I may be misinterpreting your method.

 

[The Chairman]

What I'm saying is some instructors would say doing that lying on the bottom is not necessary, possibly harmful to progress. Ie., nothing at all, ever, on the bottom.

As long as there are different instructors there are going to be different styles. You teach 'em right-handed while I teach 'em left. As long as the results are similar, it's a teach and let teach scenario. IOW, you won't catch me walking up to another instructor uninvited and telling them how to teach their class.

I know what works for me. However, if I spot a good idea, or least one better than how I'm doing it, I'll gladly steel it ad have no problems giving you props for it. What's frustrating to me is hearing over and over "this can't be done" and often by people who haven't even tried.

Many years ago a special friend invited me to go along with her class on their first OW dive in a crappy little lake. The seas were not welcoming for noobs. It was her class and I let her teach it. My role was that of a DM. In the deep part of the lake they had a platform about 4 ft off of the bottom. Luckily, they had lines going to the platform so we could find it. She had the kids on their knees on that platform and I hovered just above and behind them. I was actually swimming sideways (in and out at angles to keep moving) as I wanted to see their eyes. You can tell an awful lot with bubbles and a bit more with eyes. It was a fun exercise and I kept out their way.

During the debrief someone remarked on how stable and calm I was and they all wanted to know how I did it. My friend asked me to answer them, and I said in so many words: what's stopping you? She had great presence in the water so all they had to do was imitate her: "Monkey see, Monkey do". There was a switch flipped with that comment. Even though neither of us had mentioned it outright, no one kneeled. Their entire in water demeanor had changed just at a suggestion. On the way back, she pointed out that I really hadn't taught them a thing. Well, it wasn't my class to teach, but an example is worth a thousand words. As I've told a few nooby instructors who have asked me what I thought of their classes: shut up and dive. Words often silt out a great lesson: show them how it's done.

that'd be a standards violation,

Which standard?

 

[boulderjohn]

When I was at PADI and had a discussion with my regional training consultant (Bret Lorea), he informed me that if I placed students on the bottom of the pool and took weight off until they floated midwater, that'd be a standards violation, as that is quite close to the CW3 exercise where they hover after inflating their BCD.

I am pretty sure that idea has gone the way of the Dodo.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

Which standard?

doing a CW3 skill (hover) in CW1

 

[jadairiii]

...if I placed students on the bottom of the pool and took weight off until they floated midwater, ....

This is not a "taking the weight off" exercise, you weight the student properly, they deflate the wing, get them in proper position, then, have them inflate the wing until they achieve neutral buoyancy. teachings position, using the wing and neutral buoyancy

Overweighting a student then having the instructor take the weight off? What the heck does that teach other than that they need a new instructor?

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

I am pretty sure that idea has gone the way of the Dodo.

What do you mean? Please remember this conversation was almost 5 years ago.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

Overweighting a student then having the instructor take the weight off? What the heck does that teach other than that they need a new instructor?

Well, most students in my area are given 8 lb weight belts minimum for the pool. They are firmly planted on the bottom.

 

[boulderjohn]

Which standard?

I am pretty sure he is talking about teaching advanced skills (CW3) before beginning skills (CW1).

If you remember that horribly painful part of ScubaBoard history in which DevonDiver insisted over and over and over and over that PADI standards did not allow neutrally buoyant instruction in CW1 because neutral buoyancy is taught later in the course, you may also remember that I contacted PADI headquarters and got a very precise statement that it was OK to teach neutrally buoyant from the start and there were no standards violated.

 

[boulderjohn]

What do you mean? Please remember this conversation was almost 5 years ago.

We had endless debates on this issue on ScubaBoard about 9 years ago, and in it I pasted statements directly from PADI headquarters on the issue. If it was only 5 years ago, I would say that person was mistaken.