Instructors: teaching neutrally buoyant

[wetb4igetinthewater]

Here is a video posted in a dive forum today. It is the students first pool session for the OW class.

Philippine Scuba Diving Skills Training & Experiences

Are those some sort of neoprene leggings being worn to compensate for the body being more dense below the waist?

 

[Angelo Farina]

Is "frog swimming" the same as breast stroke?

Yes...
At least here in Italy, we call "rana" (frog) the breast stroke swimming style.
However, we distinguish between two different frog swimming styles, the surface one (the head never goes underwater, pending disqualification in competitions), and the underwater frog style, where instead the head is always underwater. While the leg movement is the same, the arm movement is quite different: in surface mode, the arms complete their excursion at the stomach. Instead in underwater frog style, the arms move more laterally, and complete their excursion along the body, staying there for a while before the next leg stroke.
The underwater style is both faster and more efficient, but it has been forbidden in swimming competitions due to the number of hypoxic syncope episodes experienced by the athletes.

 

[Angelo Farina]

Not possible to learn to fin in a single session. Takes weeks or months of practice to become competent -- the old Unconscious Competence

True.
I and my wife are fin-swimming instructors, and the typical duration of a fin-swimming course is 3 months.
We did never had a single student which was already finning properly at the beginning of the course.
But this was almost 40 years ago: perhaps nowadays more people is learning to fin properly without a specific course, thanks to Youtube videos and the like...

 

[Wibble]

Are there published course standards for the PADI courses, for example DiveMaster?

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

Are there published course standards for the PADI courses, for example DiveMaster?

No. Only accessible to PADI pros. You can still find stuff leaked on the internet though.

 

[Wibble]

No. Only accessible to PADI pros. You can still find stuff leaked on the internet though.

Just wondered if it was a course that benefited people who would like Dive Leading skills, but don't want to do the PADI waltz, singing the PADI tune.

Probably need a different agency for dive leading. Maybe BSAC. Others?

 

[TMHeimer]

@h2ogypsy

I'm certainly not the most experienced instructor, but in my short time teaching, I have come to the conclusion that teaching NB/T is primarily about proper weighting, which includes weight distribution to allow a student to float horizontally effortlessly, rising and falling with their breath.

It is quite possible to do so in the first time people put on scuba gear.

Yes! That!
I don't recall for sure if we did a weight check at the ocean when I took OW. It was Nov. in Nova Scotia, so it may have been skipped due to cold (all diving wet except instructors).
But during the 4 years I assisted (summer only), all instructors did a good weight check before OW dive one. A simple task, with one's weight not ever changing unless equipment or body weight does (a lot). I have not done a formal weight check since, so that's 16 years now.

 

[TMHeimer]

Sure it is. Pretty? Not often. Effective? All but one student has been good enough by the end of the first session. Again, monkey see, monkey dive. Your students want to be just like you, so set a great example.

FWIW, the one student was in split fins.

Agree, especially the basic flutter. I was wrong to assume that everybody can do this prior to OW course.

 

[TMHeimer]

I dont think you are understand. First skill is trim/neutral buoyancy. first is teaching the diver proper trim, (this obviously starts on the deck). using the bottom of the pool you get the new diver in the "proper trim", then have them start adding gas to the wing to bring them off the bottom. They come off the bottom, they are in trim and neutral. In my daughter's class, she and the other student had trim/buoyancy within 30 min.

At that point, no more bottom, all other skills (basic 5, gas sharing, smb launch) are done in neutral buoyancy and holding trim.

No kneeling, no skills are done on the bottom.

No I think I understand the process. What I'm saying is some instructors would say doing that lying on the bottom is not necessary, possibly harmful to progress. Ie., nothing at all, ever, on the bottom. I see nothing wrong with it.

 

[TMHeimer]

Technically, you cannot FAIL a student for not being able to do something that is not in the standards, but in a practical sense, the rule is meaningless for two reasons.

1. If a DM candidate comes to you for a course, and you tell that candidate that in addition to those minimum requirements, in the course you teach the candidate will also learn the following additional skills, do you think the candidate is gong to insist on only getting the bare minimum? If so, no problem--find a different instructor.
2. Students don't FAIL a course. They keep at it until they get it right. There will therefore never be a time the student fails a course for something he or she is still working on.

I see what you and VikingDives are saying. I'm caught up with PADI's standards and reading that one can require more, but must certify if the student passes the minimum required. A good example was one instructor I assisted requiring OW students to do the 10 minute float and not allowing drown-proofing (or else they "fail"?).
Of course a DMC will hopefully want to surpass any requirement the instructor has. Part of this may be that the instructor requires this or that if they want to work as a DM at that shop. I would think the instructor still has to award the DM cert. if the candidate doesn't fulfill all his/her added requirements. Thus the DM can't work at the shop. To work at the shop, they can require that you scuba dive all the way to the moon if they want.

Now I admit I've never been a whiz at knowing every PADI standard. Perhaps one requirement for DM certification is the candidate must a be very comfortable, expert --or something like that? One may say that knowing 3-4 basic fin techniques is included in that. As some have pointed out though, finning is really not taught other than basic flutter in OW course, so I guess you'd then have to learn the others on your own if the instructor requires them as part of the DM course.