Instructors: teaching neutrally buoyant

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h2ogypsy

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I'm a Fish!
I wanted to get some feedback from different folks about how they are now demonstrating/teaching SCUBA OW skills while neutrally buoyant and those students that are struggling in the beginning with this. I really like how we are moving towards the very important neutral buoyancy focus, however, unfortunately not all students that drop in the shallow end of a pool are going to have that skill set right off the bat, so I wanted to get some different ideas of how different Instructors are managing the first few skills; nb vs. knees. Anybody start off with first session on the knees while getting the students comfortable being uw with the gear? Anybody start right off trying to get the students to hover? If so, how do you manage that?
Any ideas, comments will be great. Thank you!
 
We teach from the very start in neutral buoyancy. It's hard for the students in the beginning.
SNSI, the agency where I certify, has a new method using a bar with floats and anchored to the bottom. The students can grab the bar and release anxiety and use it as a reference.
Here is the video : The video is in spanish, but you will be able to find the same in english.
 
We teach from the very start in neutral buoyancy. It's hard for the students in the beginning.
SNSI, the agency where I certify, has a new method using a bar with floats and anchored to the bottom. The students can grab the bar and release anxiety and use it as a reference.
Here is the video : The video is in spanish, but you will be able to find the same in english.

That is awesome! Thank you so much!
 
We teach from the very start in neutral buoyancy. It's hard for the students in the beginning.
SNSI, the agency where I certify, has a new method using a bar with floats and anchored to the bottom. The students can grab the bar and release anxiety and use it as a reference.
Here is the video : The video is in spanish, but you will be able to find the same in english.
Not being an instructor (but having participated a lot in past threads on NB), I tend to agree with you about it being hard for the students at the beginning. Since being NB adds one more task when doing the skills, it makes sense that it is at least a bit harder. Several very experienced instructors on the Board claim that it is just as easy (even for non-"water experienced divers") from square one.
 
Several very experienced instructors on the Board claim that it is just as easy (even for non-"water experienced divers") from square one.
It is absolutely not.
I did some 50 pure training dives on my own over the course of 4 months ahead of my fundies, the first 30 were solely focused on neutral buoyancy, they were very boring dives but I got it nailed down to the point where I didn't even have to think about it anymore.
I had OW/AOW at that point so wasn't completely new to diving, but I would bet that the amount of brand new divers who can really nail their buoyancy right off the bat in their OW course are extremely rare.
 
I love it when people who never done something and never seen it done pontificate on what it must be like.
 
Not being an instructor (but having participated a lot in past threads on NB), I tend to agree with you about it being hard for the students at the beginning. Since being NB adds one more task when doing the skills, it makes sense that it is at least a bit harder. Several very experienced instructors on the Board claim that it is just as easy (even for non-"water experienced divers") from square one.
A few years ago I and two other instructors commenced teaching some army cadets. I chose to do it NB. My students where slightly ahead of the others by lesson 3 as they had gained confidence being NB when the others were still routed on the bottom.
 
Several very experienced instructors on the Board claim that it is just as easy (even for non-"water experienced divers") from square one.
It's a matter of balance and feels. This is why I have them swim four or more laps at the surface. You'll be able to correct legs dangling as well as finning issues before they even submerge. In addition, they get comfortable being prone, which is not a normal position for most people.
My students where slightly ahead of the others by lesson 3 as they had gained confidence being NB when the others were still routed on the bottom.
Confidence is an amazing teaching accelerant. It's also important to always set a great example. If you don't want students lying on the bottom, then you should never, ever lie on the bottom. If you want them flat, then you should always be flat. Monkey see: monkey scuba. I've other instructors mistake my class for getting trim buoyancy right for cavern. They often have a hard time believing that they aren't even certified yet. This is a case where it's easier done than said.
 
I know I have never taught anything, never having been an instructor. I still feel it is logical to say it is at least somewhat harder for some students to be taught skills neutrally from the get go. Not saying I disagree with it being taught that way at all--I did see an improvement in students on checkout dive 1 in my last year assisting (2015) when more time was spent basically hovering around in the pool (not necessarily while skills took place).

But, here is a quote from someone who HAS experience-- Lynn Laymon, Aug. 2015 article in Dive Training mag.---

"WORD OF CAUTION"
"Removing and replacing the scuba unit is significantly easier when performed while standing on a solid surface, like the bottom of a pool, lake or quarry floor. That is fine for learning the skill and practice. ....., once you become comfortable...try executing it midwater. ..... Be prepared to adjust buoyancy. ... Depending on the type of weighting system you are using, the scuba unit may float up as you sink or vice-versa.....This can be dangerous.....It is important to maintain secure physical contact with the unit and to keep the combination of the scuba unit and your body neutrally buoyant throughout the skill."

I don't have to have had experience teaching so see the logic in this. As for my teaching experience, it's easier to teach a trumpet student the first note without also asking him/her to hold it for four beats and play it with a cresciendo.

Now, removing & replacing the unit was always my worst skill and it actually held up my DM certification. If you threw in holding onto the unit after it's off and getting everything NB, my guess is that for me, this would make it quite a bit harder.
In reading this article, logic tells me it's harder to do this than to plant yourself on the bottom, particularly if your total prior water experience has been in the shallow end of motel pools on vacation.
Other skills, such as mask clearing, reg retrieval, etc., would seem to be a whole lot easier to do neutrally the first time. In fact, in my own diving and assisting, I have done these on my own and while demonstrating to students very well the first time, without any prior practice doing them neutrally.

My final conclusion from all those other threads was that teaching the skills that can be done neutrally neutral (not that many-- 7 or 8?), is not the main reason students are much better divers after certification (or even on the first checkout dive). I figure it is the fact that while one student does a skill in the pool everyone else is hovering looking at him/her, and not wasting time kneeling on the bottom. That's a lot of neutral prctice.
 
I know I have never taught anything, never having been an instructor. I still feel it is logical to say it is at least somewhat harder for some students to be taught skills neutrally from the get go. Not saying I disagree with it being taught that way at all--I did see an improvement in students on checkout dive 1 in my last year assisting (2015) when more time was spent basically hovering around in the pool (not necessarily while skills took place).

But, here is a quote from someone who HAS experience-- Lynn Laymon, Aug. 2015 article in Dive Training mag.---

"WORD OF CAUTION"
"Removing and replacing the scuba unit is significantly easier when performed while standing on a solid surface, like the bottom of a pool, lake or quarry floor. That is fine for learning the skill and practice. ....., once you become comfortable...try executing it midwater. ..... Be prepared to adjust buoyancy. ... Depending on the type of weighting system you are using, the scuba unit may float up as you sink or vice-versa.....This can be dangerous.....It is important to maintain secure physical contact with the unit and to keep the combination of the scuba unit and your body neutrally buoyant throughout the skill"

Now, removing & replacing the unit was always my worst skill and it actually held up my DM certification.
But in reading this article, logic tells me its harder to do this than to plant yourself on the bottom, particularly if your total prior water experience has been in the shallow end of motel pools on vacation.
Other skills, such as mask clearing, reg retrieval, etc., would seem to be a whole lot easier to do neutrally the first time. In fact, in my own diving and assisting, I have done these on my own and while demonstrating to students very well the first time, without any prior practice doing them neutrally.

My final conclusion from all those other threads was that the reason teaching the skills that can be done neutrally neutral (not that many-- 7 or 8?), is not the main reason students are much better divers after certification (or even on the first checkout dive). I figure it is the fact that while one student does a skill in the pool everyone else is hovering looking at him/her, and not wasting time kneeling on the bottom. That's a lot of neutral prctice.
After not doing it for several years, I did don and doff both on the bottom and in mid-water during my Solo Diving course in 2013. I have a back inflate BC with integrated weights. The doff and don on the bottom was difficult because all my weight was in the BC and I was floating. The doff and don in mid-water was a piece of cake. If I ever had to doff and don for a real reason, drift line caught on my valve, I would do it mid-water rather than on the bottom. I have done this, and I am correct...:)
 
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