Instructors, is this common practice???

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I honestly no longer understand what you are driving at.

Answer "yes" to any question on the Medical Statement and you need to have a physician sign the Medical Statement, either clearing the student for diving or not.

"OLD, STABLE, UNCHANGED and PREVIOUSLY CLEARED condition" has no bearing. Your instructor for your DM program and DSD leadership should have made it very clear to you that you do not interpret anything with respect to the responses to the Medical Statement. It is cut and dry. "Yes" on the Medical Statement = Physician must complete his/her portion of the Medical Statement.

You have someone come to you for a DSD, they fill out the Medical Statement. It is all part of the DSD brochure and quiz.

No where on the Medical Statement does it state a requirement for a physical examination for the physician to render their opinion. The Medical Statement only asks when the student's last physical examination was. At that, the information is only required if there is a "yes" answer.

Information provided with the Medical Statement is to guide a physician in their decision to clear someone or not.

Note that the signature must be: "Physician's Signature or Legal Representative of Medical Practitioner".
 
If a person arrives at a dive shop (person is already AOW cert.) and gets a form to fill out prior to diving that asks medical questions, is there a chance the person will be asked for a medical release?

I apologize if this question should have been asked in some other forum.
 
I honestly no longer understand what you are driving at.

I'll try one more time

Answer "yes" to any question on the Medical Statement and you need to have a physician sign the Medical Statement, either clearing the student for diving or not.

No one on this thread has disagreed with this. The question is where does RSCT (or PADI) say the required physician release has to be from within a year. Again no one is questioning the need for a new physcian's release for a NEW condition.

Raftingtigger:
"OLD, STABLE, UNCHANGED and PREVIOUSLY CLEARED condition"

are my words to illustrate that this is not a new condition.

your DM program and DSD leadership should have made it very clear to you that you do not interpret anything with respect to the responses to the Medical Statement. It is cut and dry. "Yes" on the Medical Statement = Physician must complete his/her portion of the Medical Statement.

I'm not the one on this thread interpreting the questions. The medical form asks about Head injury "with loss of consciousness".
Jim Lapenta:
2.And if I find out there was a concussion and the parents answered no regardless of whether or not consciouness was lost because they want the kid to get certed then class is over. No refund. A concussion is being treated much more seriously now than it was when those forms were made up.

Not only is he interpreting, but he's costing them money.

This isn't always a trivial issue. Have you checked the price of a physical exam lately. One for diving isn't usually covered by insurance. Also what about the diver who decides to take a con-ed class on vacation. Are they SOL if they have a unchanged reportable conditon and had the wherewithall to bring their physician's release?
 
Last edited:
If a person arrives at a dive shop (person is already AOW cert.) and gets a form to fill out prior to diving that asks medical questions, is there a chance the person will be asked for a medical release?

I apologize if this question should have been asked in some other forum.

Sure is... If you answer "YES" to any of the conditions. Are you sure you are medically qualified to dive? Then answer accordingly and give the dive op the legal protection they need to enable your diving.
 
Thanks, awap. From what you wrote, it would be prudent to bring a current medical release. I wish I could remember what dive shops ask and what conditions would keep you from being able to dive????
 
I'll try one more time

This isn't always a trivial issue. Have you checked the price of a physical exam lately. One for diving isn't usually covered by insurance. Also what about the diver who decides to take a con-ed class on vacation.

Last time as well.

Who said it was trivial.

There is no requirement on the RSTC Medical Statement for a physical examination.

The diver who decides to take a con-ed class on vacation from a PADI Instructor (presumably other agencies who are part of RSTC as well) will be required to fill out a Medical Questionnaire - period - if that diver is not asked to fill out a Medical Questionnaire then the Instructor is in violation of Standards. If the diver answers "no" there is no concern. If there is a "yes", the diver needs the physicians clearance to dive.

No, I have no idea how much a physical examination costs - check my profile. However, no physical examination is required, so it does not matter.

Actually I will qualify that. No physical examination is required in Canada or the US. Some other countries, Australia for example, require a physical exam before one can take lessons - not an Agency requirement, but a government requirement.
 
SNUFF...with all of this information...did your son get a current medical release??? Did he achieve his Open Water Certification??? If so...are you and your family enjoying the fact that you share something so special to have the ability to go diving together; to share adventures; to share memories...to pass on to future generations!!!

Rules are rules and sometimes there are road blocks to get where you want to go, but memories are priceless!!!!

If your son is not certified yet just keep the above in mind when he signs up for his open water course.

Dive safe...dive often!!!
 
Thanks, awap. From what you wrote, it would be prudent to bring a current medical release. I wish I could remember what dive shops ask and what conditions would keep you from being able to dive????
There may be a little confusion about the context of your question.

Here is what you asked:
If a person arrives at a dive shop (person is already AOW cert.) and gets a form to fill out prior to diving that asks medical questions, is there a chance the person will be asked for a medical release?

If you are just going diving, most operators (by far) will not have you sign such a form or require anything like what is being discussed in this thread. Medical forms of this kind are usually only requested if you are taking instruction. I believe (not sure) it may be different in locations like Australia.

I have taken a lot of classes over the years, and I am never sure that I won't suddenly decide to take another. It is also possible that I may be asked to sign a release prior to just diving, although I cannot remember that happening. Consequently, whenever I have my annual physical I have my doctor sign a new release form. I take a copy with me whenever I travel with an intent to dive.
 
There may be a little confusion about the context of your question.

Here is what you asked:
If a person arrives at a dive shop (person is already AOW cert.) and gets a form to fill out prior to diving that asks medical questions, is there a chance the person will be asked for a medical release?

If you are just going diving, most operators (by far) will not have you sign such a form or require anything like what is being discussed in this thread. Medical forms of this kind are usually only requested if you are taking instruction. I believe (not sure) it may be different in locations like Australia.

I have taken a lot of classes over the years, and I am never sure that I won't suddenly decide to take another. It is also possible that I may be asked to sign a release prior to just diving, although I cannot remember that happening. Consequently, whenever I have my annual physical I have my doctor sign a new release form. I take a copy with me whenever I travel with an intent to dive.

Thanks, John, for your reply. For some reason I remember filling out a form prior to diving but for the life of me can't remember what it asked. So this forum started me thinking about questions that could be on the form and if any answers would require a medical release. I like what you do...get a new release form signed at your annual physical...then you're always prepared.

islanddream
 
From my learning agreement that is gone over in detail BEFORE I collect any money or engage in ANY instruction:


6. Complete all required registration and medical clearances prior to the first pool session.

*Note that in addition to the standard Scuba Educators International (SEI) medical statement, UDM Aquatic Services requires the following information based on current medical developments that are not included on the SEI Statement.

1. Any history of concussion without loss of consciousness in the last 5 years,
2. History of fainting spells.
3. Any head injury requiring medical intervention such as skull fracture, removal of section of skull, or which may affect the students ability to understand directions.
4. If you have or have had tubes surgically placed in your ears.
5. If you are taking any prescribed medication that may affect your judgment.
6. Gastric Bypass or lap band surgery.
7. Intentional dieting that may result in dizziness, weakness, nausea, or other adverse condition.
8. Any condition listed that may develop or become known during training is to be immediately
communicated to the instructor for evaluation of need to obtain medical clearance.

*** Note: Failure to disclose any condition noted in the SEI Medical Statement or UDM Aquatics list will be considered a breech of this agreement and may result in immediate termination of instruction should said condition be revealed during training. Instruction would only resume after complete medical clearance from a physician familiar with said condition. Refusal to obtain clearance will result in no further instruction and no refund of monies paid. Should the physician refuse to give clearance a partial refund will result based on time already invested. There is no refund for materials or equipment purchased.

and item 8:

8. Students under the age of 18 MUST have a parent, legal guardian, adult family member, or family representative present for all classroom and pool sessions as well as Open Water Dives.

*Legal Guardian, adult family member, or family representative must have current authorization
to obtain medical care for student in the event of an injury requiring medical care.

I am only costing them money if they lie to me. You can use the word "fraud" but that is just a nicer way of saying "lied to".
And you still seem to think I have to take someone on that may have a medical condition I am not comfortable with. I don't. I choose the level of risk I am willing to accept. Not the RSTC, not SEI, not CMAS, or any other agency I may certify through in the future. Diving is not for everyone. I have no problem telling someone that even though their doctor may say it's ok for them to train, I don't have to accept that if a conditon makes me uneasy. If in the future something else comes up that is not on the SEI Medical or my list I will research it and if it is a concern in my mind it will get added to the list. It takes too long to change thousands, perhaps hundreds of thousands, of forms. I can change mine in seconds and meet my level of risk acceptance that will be understood again, BEFORE, I collect a cent from a student. And if you cant afford a physical/trip to the doctor for a release you may want to reconsider a sport like scuba that costs what it does. Especially for your kids.
 
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