Instructors - Agencies Split from overweight

[Steve R]

It's funny you bring that up. Since I droped my PADI membership they have sent me letters offering me "deals" to renew. Apparently they think I left because I can't afford the dues or something LOL and it's never occured to them that I left because I don't think they know anything about dive training.

lol.

Even though the QA dept (International) is more than aware of my many beefs, quality concerns and safety issues, it seems as though the marketting dept isn't, and keep asking for my money with ever increasing "deals". I guess they like killing trees and having me deposit them in the recycling bin. lol.


Azza, where the rubber meets the road, you're dreamin' dude. But if it works for ya, run with it.

For every decent instructor that leaves out of sheer frustation, there's a hundred more waiting and/or willing to get hung out to dry. They're making it easier and easier to step up and hang off that line for that very reason.

There's a never ending line-up for it, and they ain't listening if you're paying or not.

They just use that as another lame excuse, of which they have many. And they get suckers to buy into it everyday.

I eventually lost track of how many times I fell for it, always getting sucked in by the hope of things to come.........lol, I laugh at it now.

 

[dbg40]

Padi wants to make money. If they lissten to the better instructors in the fold, and impliment change, they will cut into thier bottom line. They will need to search out, and find better instructors, those instructors will have to retrain those under them, some perspective students will wash out, or not be allowed into the process to begin with. This all leads to loss of revenue. To PADI, this is unacceptable. So they advise manufacturers to come up with some new plastic gadget to get a diver over the top when they should never even be in the class.

 

[Sideband]

Better than what? Do you KNOW her level of training? Do you KNOW who even trained her? No... it's the ego insinuating that your training must somehow be superior. That's pretty normal I guess. "Everyone else is crap compared to my (insert dive instructor, agency, affiliation here)!!!" is a statement I have had enough of.

It's sad that some would use this tragedy as a stepping stone to further their agenda.

I don't have a horse in this race, but I disagree. No matter what her level of training it obviously wasn't enough, at least for her in this instance, and my saying so in no way infers that my training was superior. On the contrary, I believe that my training was crap and I am a pretty good diver in spite of that training. I have been let down by every class I have taken with the exception of my Master Diver class. Through and including Rescue class I was never formally instructed in gas planning or management... I could go on but won't.

 

[jefffalcone]

Just out of curiosity, is there anything in the padi standards that prevents you from being a good instructor? I understand that you are permitted to be a bad instructor. I did an open water referal, and did my check out dives in Cancuun. The instructor combined dives 1 & 2 into one dive and didn't even get on the boat for dives 3 & 4. My AOW was basically given to me w/o any instruction at all. All I had to do was fill out knowledge reviews and then do the dives I was going to do anyway. At no point was there an instructor in the water evaluating me. I didn't really mind this, because a lot of this stuff comes naturally to me, and since my AOW course I have had several very experienced divers tell me that my skills are better than most with my level of experience. The pool and classroom part of my OW was very good, which helps a lot. So it is pretty clear to me that Padi instructors can and do get away with doing a poor job. But it also seems that many can and do do an excellent job. If your goal is to provide excellent instruction to as many people as possible, why not work within the Padi system. Padi seems to attract by far the most students, so as a Padi instructor you should be able to teach more people and insure that they are safe divers. What am I missing?

 

[Azza]

Depends who you talk to.
I think the PADI system allows one to be a good instructor, but some of these old pelicans probably dont agree. I mean geez if you cant throw ya kit into 30 metres of water, freedive down, put it on and spear some lunch in one hit then you just dont cut the mustard i'm sorry

 

[SNorman]

I don't see any such implication.

This is exactly why I posted "Walter isn't always right" in that other thread. Some of the positions you take are really reaching and I'm sure you know it.

 

[Walter]

Please explain why it's really reaching that I see no implication that Mike was referring to a specific death in the Keys when he never mentioned it.

As for me not always being right - that's a given. Of course I make my share of mistakes. When I do, I'm wrong.

 

[MikeFerrara]

I don't believe that there is anything in the PADI standards that prevents an instructor from teaching a good class. there are a few things that I think are minor road blocks but they don't stop you.

Unfortunately, one PADI card is worth exactly the same as the next on the open market and there are MANY shops and instructors who are real masters at only doing what they must in the interest of offering the shortest most inexpensive class possible.

There just isn't any value in the training and very few buy it for the training. They buy it for the access that comes with it. To answer the question

If your goal is to provide excellent instruction to as many people as possible, why not work within the Padi system. Padi seems to attract by far the most students, so as a Padi instructor you should be able to teach more people and insure that they are safe divers. What am I missing?

PADI doesn't attract students. Most students don't know one agency from another. What attracts them is usually the desire to dive on a scheduled vacation. What gets them to sign up is the short schedule and the LOW price. The game is to certify them for next to nothing and then sell them a bunch of gear...or let someone else sell them gear and just donate your time to certify them. All with NO regard to how they dive. If, for some reason, what you want to do is certify a large number of divers in a short period of time...the PADI system IS the ticket.

But, hey, if there are any of you out there who are wanting to donate time and labor, I could sure use a new roof and some siding on my house. LOL

 

[MikeFerrara]

I don't have a horse in this race, but I disagree. No matter what her level of training it obviously wasn't enough, at least for her in this instance, and my saying so in no way infers that my training was superior.

You haven't been paying attention. Had you been really reading this stuff you would know that the training isn't to blame for the bad diving and it's experience that makes you a good diver. You would also know that training can't prevent panic.

When you put it all together, the obviouse conclusion tis that you may as well not bother with training because it doesn't do anything.

And, that is just what I've bee trying to you about so much of the training that's available...it doesn't do anything for you.

so everyone agrees, thread over and I win.

 

[SNorman]

Do you think it's possible that some people are un-trainable? I have dove with a woman lately who actually had a lot of trouble passing the OW course. Yes, they *did* make her redo parts of it, with extra classes (so they did make an effort to train someone correctly who was having trouble). That and another experience lately makes me think some people (eh, in my case all women, but I know there are many exceptions ) just can't train themselves to NOT FREAK OUT!!!