Instructor sentenced after diver's death

[tomcatbubba]

I've had a few people telling me I should think about DM in a few years, simply because I'm passionate about diving. Even if I was inclined (I'm not for a number of reasons), the liability issues make it a big NO.

Very prudent IMO.........

 

[diver42]

New divers plainly believe that when they hire a guide, they hire a professional lifeguard.

Guides often believe that their sole job is to make recommendations, which customers, as certified divers themselves, can choose to follow or not to follow.

And onlookers, and some courts, seem to believe that the dividing line isn't between certified and not, but between experienced and not. Or worse, between lucky and not. (Incidentally, the idea that a rescue isn't strictly necessary, but once attempted must be completed, is quite odd. There's an analogue on the surface, where attempting a rescue will deter others from attempting it. Underwater that principle has little application.)

I don't know what the right answer is. But it does seem to be confusion that guides could clear up—if they wanted to. I'm afraid that too many guides benefit from the customer's expectations but aren't interested in meeting them. This is why god invented the informed waiver.

 

[KevinNM]

In our training we practice rescues from a solid bottom, as I believe all agencies do. Should we start looking at how we train to rescue a negative buoyant diver whilst descending?

If you plan to make inexperienced divers negatively buoyant I'd suggest you have a plan for what to do when this goes completely to hell and they start sinking like a rock.

 

[KevinNM]

Another case of "I want to go scuba diving, not be a scuba diver". The couple thought they could skip the experience level needed to make that dive by hiring a "Guide".
Lots of bad decisions by everyone.

If I ask advice about how to safely do a dive and your answer is "don't worry, hire me to guide you, I've done it hundreds of times" instead of "Based on the questions you are asking and your expeianceI don't think you are qualified to do this dive" then no. It's on you for putting a fairly small amount of money over safety.

 

[oldschoolto]

But the divers of today think 25 dives over a few years makes them real divers... I'm sorry, But I laugh inside when I'm listening to a diver tell me that they are great divers with 20-30 dives.. Last time in Bonaire I met a guy that needed a buddy, So I went for a dive with him... He could not do anything right.. From setting up his gear to getting in and out of the water.. He swam with his arms and was sinking and corking the whole dive.. Even put the rental regulator in the wash tank without capping the first stage.. Some how, A shop passed him and gave him a OW card... I ended up diving with him for the week to help him learn a little bit and not kill himself...

Jim...

 

[Edward3c]

If you plan to make inexperienced divers negatively buoyant I'd suggest you have a plan for what to do when this goes completely to hell and they start sinking like a rock.

From my anecdotal evidence, from running BSAC regional training sessions, I’m seeing students whom are 25-30% over weighted by their original instructor. This is more prevalent from the commercial agencies than clubs.

 

[scagrotto]

It would fall under the Diving at Work Regulations. ... A written risk assessment, plus a standby rescue diver are requirements.

So it's basically impossible to hire a dive guide in the UK? Does a course with a paid instructor also fall under those regulations?

 

[Edward3c]

So it's basically impossible to hire a dive guide in the UK? Does a course with a paid instructor also fall under those regulations?

Yes, there are a few instructors whom have been prosecuted, usually trained overseas.
The DWR apply to PADI, GUE, SSI etc.

 

[markmud]

Panic, brain freeze,.....

Sorry Dan_T,

The correct answer is POOR TRAINING!

As Oldschool wrote:
"So it's gotten to the point that We have people with dive master/ Instructors cards not knowing how to look after divers they are being payed to look after, And divers with OW/AOW cards not knowing how to look after themselves... As far as I can see from reading ... None of them should have been in anything but a 4 foot indoor pool... Being retrained as Bubble makers..."

Oldschool has it about right!

markm

 

[markmud]

Very prudent IMO.........

And:
"
Marie13 said: ↑
I've had a few people telling me I should think about DM in a few years, simply because I'm passionate about diving. Even if I was inclined (I'm not for a number of reasons), the liability issues make it a big NO."

Hi all,

I don't even recommend getting a Rescue Cert as an avocational diver.

I have been on cross exam, I have done interrogatories, I have done depositions, I was the fool who represented himself in courts of law (and won).

Here is a scenario: A plaintiff's attorney announces to the court that, Mr. Mark, you are a "licensed rescue diver"; therefore, you should have used your skills to save this panicking diver who was just 25' behind you, even though she was not your buddy!

No way. Only a fool would get a rescue cert, a DM cert, or instructor cert as a part time diver. A full time instructor is a different story. Go all in, or don't go at all.

The rescue cert needs a new name.

thanks,
markm