Instructor sentenced after diver's death

[Celt]

So this is the point you are arguing against... you hire a guide (or in this case instructor) to lend his expertise to a challenging dive. and he is totally incompetent and during the dive that he set up, your husband dies. This is EXACTLY what happened. They paid the instructor to help plan, equip and execute the dive. Yes, they could have thumbed the dive, but we have no idea about what was going on in their minds. The trial was about whether the guide acted in a responsible, professional manner. If you are on a commercial job and a support person f’s up and puts you in a bad situation, do you let him off the hook or do you hold him accountable for his mistakes? Or is it your bad luck to get killed and this guy simply keeps his job and we’ll see if he learns from your mistake?

I guess he is one of those experiential learners.

So mac64, you seem to be coming down very hard on a system you have never participated in. If you have no experience with the system of recreational diving over the last30+ years, I am not sure how can have such definitive claims absolving the instructor of blame.

The trial was about blaming someone and justifying a system that in this case failed, no one really knows what happened but i believe the dive started out ok which was why it wasn't called early, as they made their way down the slope vis dropped dramatically the couple who i believe were behind the guide were having trouble controlling their buoyancy, the male was having trouble breathing with an overinflated jacket which brought on panic and a rapid assent by the couple. the guide went after them and managed to stop them at 30 feet, seeing the grossly overinflated jacket he dumped to much air and all three started to slide down the slope in a panicked tangle kicking up silt and dirt further reducing vis to near nil. Fortunately all three separated and the woman and guide made it to the surface. at this stage vis would be nil and none of the divers would see what was happening with the other. The system put the guide in the appalling situation of having to deal with 2 panicked divers who were not fit to make the dive but carried certification saying that they could. The system put the couple in a situation where they believed they would be safe.

 

[Wookie]

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This Thread has been Reopened...

I have cleaned up this thread. Personal attacks will not be tolerated, as they won't ever be tolerated anywhere on this board. You have a beef with another kid, take it outside or put on the gloves and get in the ring.

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[Dan]

The trial was about blaming someone and justifying a system that in this case failed, no one really knows what happened but i believe the dive started out ok which was why it wasn't called early, as they made their way down the slope vis dropped dramatically the couple who i believe were behind the guide were having trouble controlling their buoyancy, the male was having trouble breathing with an overinflated jacket which brought on panic and a rapid assent by the couple. the guide went after them and managed to stop them at 30 feet, seeing the grossly overinflated jacket he dumped to much air and all three started to slide down the slope in a panicked tangle kicking up silt and dirt further reducing vis to near nil. Fortunately all three separated and the woman and guide made it to the surface. at this stage vis would be nil and none of the divers would see what was happening with the other. The system put the guide in the appalling situation of having to deal with 2 panicked divers who were not fit to make the dive but carried certification saying that they could. The system put the couple in a situation where they believed they would be safe.

I don’t find anything in the incident description about stirring up the silt and dirt to near nil visibility. Could you post the original text referencing to that situation?

 

[Dan]

I was wondering about that too. mac64 tells a story about the three divers rolling down an underwater hill and stirring up so much silt and debris that the visibility was reduced to the point that one diver could not see the other two.

I suspect a complete fabrication and said as much in a now deleted post.

I have the same suspicion.

@leadduck on his post #31, page 4 mentions:
“It's a steep slope down to 50m, a wall on one side with a big mirror installed at 32m for selfies. Popular spot, but definitely not the place to go for your very first cold water mountain lake dive.

The guide was sentenced because he left the victim at 36m. According to the expert witness the victim was overweighted but the guide could have easily inflated the victim's BC; there was no technical problem, the guide just didn't do it and went”

I can’t imagine a dive site with steep slope wall with mirror installed at 32m for selfies would be silty. Otherwise the mirror would render useless for selfies.

The victim was found at 36m soon after also another sign of some reasonable visibility, not near nil as mentioned by @mac64

 

[CT-Rich]

I am also wondering about the over inflated jacket BCD constrict the man’s chest and inducing a panic. The stuff I read said the wetsuit was inadequate for conditions and the tank was too small for dive. If the BCD jacket was so small it restricted breathing, that would have also been mentioned... I don’t recall anything about the style of BCD either, a back inflate could easily be inflated to its maximum capacity without any breathing impairment.... Maybe it was so over inflated that as he tumbled down the underwater hill he broke his crown, a sharp edge on the crown tore though the BCD and caused it to rupture. The shockwave killing the husband.....

Just because nothing like it was mentioned, doesn’t exclude the possibility.....

 

[clownfishsydney]

At least according to the reports (and the thread title) the couple were diving with an instructor (not just a guide). That's exact what every training agency tells you to do when going out into unfamiliar territory.
That instructor, despite his supposed superior knowledge and skill did not complain about the tanks (10 ltrs. for 30 meters in cold water takes a lot of balls and no knowledge of gas-planning) or the overweighted diver. Furthermore he deflated the victims BCD, thereby he exacerbated the situation – I can fully understand that he was found at least partially culpable.

I have seen a couple of cases where a diver had breathing difficulties related to wetsuit or BCD. One was my brother when we were very new divers. He had his BCD strapped too tight across the chest and at depth he had trouble taking full breaths. We surfaced and swam back to shore. On the other dive, someone had too tight a wetsuit. It was okay when he took small breaths, but once he had to work hard, he had problems.

In the same way, it is possible/probable that a full inflated BCD could stop someone breathing properly and add to their panic.

 

[Tom_Ivan]

I’d hate to be the person who had gifted them the dive! Not their fault of course but I bet they’re feeling pretty terrible right now.

 

[Celt]

I was wondering about that too. mac64 tells a story about the three divers rolling down an underwater hill and stirring up so much silt and debris that the visibility was reduced to the point that one diver could not see the other two.

I suspect a complete fabrication and said as much in a now deleted post.

I didn’t say that’s what did happen, I said could happen. At the start of that post I said , no one really knows what happened, a previous poster who dived the lake a week earlier said vis was down to 1 meter because of rain, I’ve worked in mountain lakes laying pipe for water supply . Bottom silt can be a foot deep, and I’ve brought a diver back from 54 meters who could not breath because of an overinflated stab jacket who was wearing a wet suit which had lost all buoyancy. The OP said the victim was a heavy breather which could lead to him becoming breathless

 

[Celt]

I don’t find anything in the incident description about stirring up the silt and dirt to near nil visibility. Could you post the original text referencing to that situation?

Three divers have dropped from 10 meters to 36 down a slope. 2 in a complete panic in a mountain lake where rain has reduced vis to one meter might they have further reduced visibility by kicking up silt adding to an already panicked situation, that is what I’m saying what might have happened.

 

[Celt]

I am also wondering about the over inflated jacket BCD constrict the man’s chest and inducing a panic. The stuff I read said the wetsuit was inadequate for conditions and the tank was too small for dive. If the BCD jacket was so small it restricted breathing, that would have also been mentioned... I don’t recall anything about the style of BCD either, a back inflate could easily be inflated to its maximum capacity without any breathing impairment.... Maybe it was so over inflated that as he tumbled down the underwater hill he broke his crown, a sharp edge on the crown tore though the BCD and caused it to rupture. The shockwave killing the husband.....

Just because nothing like it was mentioned, doesn’t exclude the possibility.....

CT I’m just trying to piece together what might have happened which might avoid tragedy’s like this happening what is the point in mockingly picking apart what someone has said,