Instructor molested me on first dive

[KY_BOB]

Not only is this guy taking advantage of a new diver in a confined situation, he is also endangering her life! Taking an inexperienced dive to 45 feet and feeling her up? This guy goes way beyond being a run-of the-mill sexual predator.

This makes my blood boil! Castration and a frontal lobotomy are too good.

Agreed! Taking someone where they aren't sure if they can leave by themselves and that they had no business in the first place. That's almost kidnapping.

 

[TheScubaBOB]

Wow, this thread has really gone off the beaten path quickly. We've moved from Scuba Divers to experts on Sexual Predators. Seems today everything bad that happens gets blamed on "Sexual Predators" and everyone is an expert.

Here's an original idea: Just answer the young lady's questions.

Yes, the instructor was out of line in his behavior.

Yes, you should report it to everyone who would have any authority such as the local law enforcement, The Resort/Hotel/Dive Shop employing the instructor, The Agency regulating the instructor, etc.

Yes, you are correct, nobody should put themselves in a situation where they are alone with a stranger. This includes males & females of all ages. You should have asked your already certified (I assume from your mentioning of their her knowledge) sister to come along "just to ease my nervousness". I was with my wife during every since OW dive she did for her certification (yes I was already certified). My 17 year old daughter was underwater with an instructor alone but I already knew & trusted him, plus I was diving with a buddy from the same point they were so I was always close.

On a side note, I understand your reluctance to "Name names" but there are a few good reasons to:

First, if I remember correctly once a Shop/Instructor name is posted someone from SB attempts to contact the shop and points them to the thread in question.

Second, I allows others who are considering using that Shop/Instructor to consider past behaviour (yes you can actually prevent further victimization).

Third, if this is an established pattern of conduct for the individual or shop in question then you may find previous victims posting their stories and even be willing to follow-up by reporting their own encounters.

Fourth, if it was a misunderstanding (and I'm not saying it was, in fact it really does sound quite outrageous to me) it could clear up the incident.

Fifth, it would allow the Shop a chance to publicly respond to the incident. I've read other threads where negative reports have turned into positive customer service experiences.

Sixth, these kind of violations are about power not sex (yes I have the experience to state this). I makes the victim feel powerless and the offender feel powerful. By standing in the light of day and saying out loud that Such and so di this to me and I won't let is simply be bruched aside you are taking back that power and denying the offender of their pay-off.

What ever you decide, best of luck to you and don't let this incident be a hinderance to you in any way.

 

[waynne fowler]

Wow, this thread has really gone of the beaten path quickly. We've moved from Scuba Divers to experts on Sexual Predators. Seems today everything bad that happens gets blamed on "Sexual Predators" and everyone is an expert.

Here's an original idea: Just answer the young lady's questions.

Nice... someone that can actually think, rather than simply react to an assumption. Last I checked, we still do live in America... yip you can have an opinion but you just can't find someone guilty based on hearsay.

how many here have ever had someone misinterpret something you said or did? I know have. On more than one occasion I've had people believe I've said something I've not said. I said something that made them 'assume' my intent. That's not to say I didn't play a part in the confusion. But what they think they saw is not what I did, what they believe I said is not what I meant.

While I believe the OP thinks this guy molested her and I won't dismiss it out of hand. I know too that most people have no concept of how squirrelly a non diver can get on an adventure dive. And while it'd be impossible to convince me there's some sort of mistake about the kissing of the hand and nibbling on the neck (but just for fun girl you shoulda just grabbed his lower lip, pinched and held on for about 30 seconds, I PROMISE he'd have taken you right out of the water and said no more to you..... EVER)
The groping part could be easy to confuse. How many adventure divers hit the wrong button on the inflator? got any idea?..... almost everyone of them at some point hit the wrong button. If she had done that and this guy was trying to arrest an ascent it may be that she perceived his manhandling her to stop her from breaching like a whale, to be a molestation. When we do something like that often times we must quickly and unexpectedly take control of the diver, most commonly I will grab them by a BC strap, this puts ones hand precariously close to a woman's breast. And if not afforded the option of being ultra careful (i.e... already on the way up and out of control, or their flailing around knocked my hand out of the way) I've been known to miss the strap by an inch or so and have to take another grab

It's really cool to try and sound all sweet by taking someones side and condemning someone they are ticked at. And indeed it is right to condemn what she believes to have happened. However without knowing just what he did that constitutes groping and hearing a bit more from her AND hearing his side of the story before we kick the guy in the ballz, take away his means of income and internationally brand him a 'Sexual Predator' I would hope we'd have a little more info to digest.

By writing a letter to the dive shop she could let them know how she perceived things. By writing a letter to his certification agency she makes them aware of the situation too. Both 'should' require that he at very least address her grievances.
As far as reporting it to the local authorities?... IMO it's too late for that.. she'll see zero results and will spend a not insignificant amount of money on phone calls and time.

I'd let the shop know too that if I am unsatisfied with how things transpire I WILL be posting the instructors name AND the name of the shop. I only hope that if she does so she is 100% confident that she has made no mistakes, and that she affords the guy the opportunity to face his accuser if he so wishes... while he may reside in another country... here.. in the U.S. we are innocent until PROVEN guilty not ASSUMED to be so... and while not perfect IMVHO it is the best the world has to offer.

Some things such as this, are very hard to diagnose 3rd party, though it's enticing to play the role of a partially informed armchair lawyer. I am exceedingly thankful none of the people that have condemned this person and branded him a ‘Sex offender’ with no more than an UNSUBSTANTIATED internet post from someone NONE OF US KNOW! had nothing to do with the drafting of our constitution as I think our nation would be run more like a prison camp.

hang em' quick, hang em' high. If they're innocent god will figure that out later.

 

[vladimir]

Wow, this thread has really gone off the beaten path quickly. We've moved from Scuba Divers to experts on Sexual Predators. Seems today everything bad that happens gets blamed on "Sexual Predators" and everyone is an expert.

Not everything, just sexual predation. And it is highly likely that there is more predation than there is blame going around, since, as you know, these crimes are vastly under-reported. I have not claimed any professional expertise in the matter, but I do have some insight (and, admittedly, some bias) from 2 women close to me who were raped. (Many of the men in this thread could probably say the same thing, but the women they know have chosen to keep quiet about it. Which is entirely understandable, given the response they often get.) And from this excellent book by Susan Brownmiller, which is considered a seminal work in the field:

Amazon.com: Against Our Will: Men, Women, and Rape (9780449908204): Susan Brownmiller: Books

Here's an original idea: Just answer the young lady's questions.

The OP did not state her age.

 

[vladimir]

Nice... someone that can actually think, rather than simply react to an assumption. Last I checked, we still do live in America... yip you can have an opinion but you just can't find someone guilty based on hearsay.

how many here have ever had someone misinterpret something you said or did? I know have. On more than one occasion I've had people believe I've said something I've not said. I said something that made them 'assume' my intent. That's not to say I didn't play a part in the confusion. But what they think they saw is not what I did, what they believe I said is not what I meant.

While I believe the OP thinks this guy molested her and I won't dismiss it out of hand. I know too that most people have no concept of how squirrelly a non diver can get on an adventure dive. And while it'd be impossible to convince me there's some sort of mistake about the kissing of the hand and nibbling on the neck (but just for fun girl you shoulda just grabbed his lower lip, pinched and held on for about 30 seconds, I PROMISE he'd have taken you right out of the water and said no more to you..... EVER)
The groping part could be easy to confuse. How many adventure divers hit the wrong button on the inflator? got any idea?..... almost everyone of them at some point hit the wrong button. If she had done that and this guy was trying to arrest an ascent it may be that she perceived his manhandling her to stop her from breaching like a whale, to be a molestation. When we do something like that often times we must quickly and unexpectedly take control of the diver, most commonly I will grab them by a BC strap, this puts ones hand precariously close to a woman's breast. And if not afforded the option of being ultra careful (i.e... already on the way up and out of control, or their flailing around knocked my hand out of the way) I've been known to miss the strap by an inch or so and have to take another grab

It's really cool to try and sound all sweet by taking someones side and condemning someone they are ticked at. And indeed it is right to condemn what she believes to have happened. However without knowing just what he did that constitutes groping and hearing a bit more from her AND hearing his side of the story before we kick the guy in the ballz, take away his means of income and internationally brand him a 'Sexual Predator' I would hope we'd have a little more info to digest.

By writing a letter to the dive shop she could let them know how she perceived things. By writing a letter to his certification agency she makes them aware of the situation too. Both 'should' require that he at very least address her grievances.
As far as reporting it to the local authorities?... IMO it's too late for that.. she'll see zero results and will spend a not insignificant amount of money on phone calls and time.

I'd let the shop know too that if I am unsatisfied with how things transpire I WILL be posting the instructors name AND the name of the shop. I only hope that if she does so she is 100% confident that she has made no mistakes, and that she affords the guy the opportunity to face his accuser if he so wishes... while he may reside in another country... here.. in the U.S. we are innocent until PROVEN guilty not ASSUMED to be so... and while not perfect IMVHO it is the best the world has to offer.

Some things such as this, are very hard to diagnose 3rd party, though it's enticing to play the role of a partially informed armchair lawyer. I am exceedingly thankful none of the people that have condemned this person and branded him a ‘Sex offender’ with no more than an UNSUBSTANTIATED internet post from someone NONE OF US KNOW! had nothing to do with the drafting of our constitution as I think our nation would be run more like a prison camp.

hang em' quick, hang em' high. If they're innocent god will figure that out later.

Your knowledge of law, the Constitution, and life in general is gleaned mostly from watching television, right?

 

[marinediva]

Hi Wayne
Just checked your profile mate (sic)
seems you have no friends here on this site.
Maybe you treat this site with the contempt that you treat this thread..

This is not an american site, and although the US would like to think it rules and laws are above and beyond other countries, am sorry to inform you they are not.

In Australia we have two laws which would cover this type of incident.
One is criminal, and yes it would be a he said she said situation, and the onus would be on the prosecution to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the defense did commit the crime.
The second law is non criminal, it is covered by OH & S. It is called Sexual Harassment in the workplace.
This law deals with situations just like this.
The onus is not on the individual to prove anything.
The complaint is made and after which both parties stories are examined.
Judgments are made on who is more credible. Sexual Harassment as with bullying is something an individual feels, and that is what the cases are based on.

One womans sexual harassment is another mans 'just having a bit of fun'.

I don't have to be a lawyer to know this, in my country I can look this up on the internet, and read it in plan english, just as I suspect any one can read your american laws on the internet as well. Google is a wonderful thing.

Of course you could be just writing your post to get a bite, I always wonder about members like yourself that come in and try to play devils advocate by using the line 'ole ya just all armchair lawyers', and none of us know the poster.
Well mate (sic) none of us know you either.

Armchair lawyer I am not, previous complainant of a sexual harassment case yes, I am.
Wake up Wayne, divers come from all walks of life and membership of scuba board is not limited to those with US passports.

 

[TheScubaBOB]

The OP did not state her age.

All women are beautiful, young ladies and should be treated as such (with respect).

I won't address the SP stuff because this really isn't the place to go into the true statistics {ie: male sexual victims, re-offense rate, prevention vs reaction}. I provided the appropriate feedback for the OP for a wide variety of offenses against a person. Further I didn't feel the need to go off-topic.

I agree that if she feels molested then she was but I can provide useful feedback that is direct and to the point {what she needs} without making blanket statements about what I think I'd do to "those pervs running around loose" {which does nothing for her}.

Now Vladimir I'm not saying that is what you've done, just pointing out that there are several useless posts in this thread that equate to that.

Be supportive of the victim doesn't mean form a lynch mob for the accused offender. Part of the under-reporting is fear of that over-reaction, remember over 90% of the victims of sexual offenses know their abuser. If society could take a level headed look at the issue then maybe it could actually be addressed.

But I'm getting off-topic here.

Please everyone, if you want to be helpful express your support to the OP and remind her that she did nothing wrong and has a right to feel violated but shouldn't be ashamed to speak out about it.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Hi Wayne
Just checked your profile mate (sic)
seems you have no friends here on this site.
Maybe you treat this site with the contempt that you treat this thread..

I am Waynne's friend ... and he does have a point about perceptions (American or otherwise).

I once had a woman file a sexual harrassment complaint against me at my place of employment. My "offense" was that I held a door open for her, and she thought that was demeaning.

When I was growing up, we called it courtesy.

Perceptions can sometimes make things seem very different from one person to another.

I won't make light of the OP's allegations (and I still think she should've kicked him in the nuts ... he'd have gotten the message). But we do have a (growing) tendency on ScubaBoard to assume the worst about people.

Maybe that's not always such a good idea ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[TheScubaBOB]

But we do have a (growing) tendency on ScubaBoard to assume the worst about people.

Maybe that's not always such a good idea ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

If only it was limited to SB, unfortunately it has become way to easy to not just assume the worst but expend great efforts to prove how much worse they are than we could ever be.

 

[marinediva]

Respectfully Bob some scubaboard members also feel it is appropriate to question every thread which does not enhance the dive industry as well. It works both ways.

I understand in regards to your information re opening the door for a woman.
I once knew a chef that was put into counselling because he told a waitress that she had a pretty face when she smiled. I do agree some things are over the top.

But times change, laws, regulations, change with them, and education and retraining is the key.

There is a bit difference from kissing someones neck and ear during a 45m dive, to opening someone's door.

My case regarded rape. It is often that victims of rape are in shock and the time frames of reporting such do tend to be limited often, and when no appearant signs, ie bruises or broken bones, hard to prove in a criminal court. Again I repeat, I find nothing strange about this young woman's post.

Considering the number of times a post like this appears on scubaboard, I prefer to give the benefit of the doubt to the poster, and offer the support someone in that position would need.
Questions to the validity may remain, but I am happy to just wonder and not express them as I believe they do more damage than good.

I would ask, so how would this woman prove it to the scubaboard members.
Name the man, name the resort. what kind of minefield would she walk into then.
Come on guys get real.