Instructor Mandated Equipment

[Thalassamania]

Try this: The critical factor be it AIR II or Necklaced Auxiliary is that you surrender the primary in your mouth and take responsibility for finding something else to breathe off of. It’s exactly the same. In fact, once you come to the sanity of surrendering the primary, you might start to see that as long as the diver takes that responsibility, it really doesn’t matter what backup system they choose, as long as it has sufficient volume to do the job and as long as the diver drills to make sure they can perform the task.

 

[edparris]

If it is confusing for the instructor / students you can breathe off the bungied backup and unclip and donate the long hose during the drills. If the boltsnap is too scary you could always put one of those little rubber second stage keepers on your d-ring.

I'd switch back to what you're comfortable with out of the pool though.

 

[randyjoy]

...but I was just curious why PADI outlaws bungeed backups.

Tom

They don't. Perfectly acceptable as far as PADI is concerned. I have a BP/W setup that I show the students alternate methods of OOA setups and discuss long hoses, short hoses, AIR II, etc. Bottom line, I want them to be knowledgable so when they're on a boat somewhere, they don't freak concerning different types of gear configurations. Though not all instructors hold my point of view...

 

[Jim Lapenta]

I use a jacket when assisting in the pool for the first and second sessions. Final session I wear my BPW and long hose. In OW I may or may not use the jacket. It depends on the students and if I'm not diving with them at any time again it's BPW and long hose. I wear what we sell when I have to. I wear what I believe is the best set up for me the rest of the time. My regs are what we sell. Oceanics. My mask is scuba max because it fits the best, My fins are rockets or blades because Oceanic does not make a fin yet that performs as well as what I use IMO. My jacket is a probe, my BPW set ups(one single one for doubles) are DSS. I'm trying to sell DSS to those customers who want to go that route but the last one I ordered I ended up buying because the wimp did not get wifey's permission to buy it. Also we deal with mostly rec divers with no tech aspirations and we are not a tech shop. I'm taking my tech thru another shop because of this and even though the owner is not crazy about it he can't offer the same courses so not much he can say.

 

[b1gcountry]

I sent an email to the instructor Friday, and he got back to me. He basically said he doesn't want the students to become confused at this point in learning. The manual and video address OOA situations using both an octo and an AIR II, but they never mention a bungeed octo.

Basically, he said there is nothing wrong with it, but he just wants to keep things simple until the students are comfortable with the setup they will be using. His exact words:

"Where as it is good to expose the students to a variety of equipment options, too much variety can be confusing at this point of learning."

I can understand this.
Tom

 

[JessH]

I have had to deal with this issue myself as I also dive a bp/w and long hose setup. Luckily I DM in a very accepting environment where I am not the only one diving this setup.

Personally I feel that a backplate and wing is just a BC and that there is really no reason that you can not use it while teaching. It may look slightly different than a jacket style BC, but most of the instructors and DMs that I know use backinflate BCs with integrated weights anyway. The only real concern I have with it is that you can not loosen the shoulder straps while demonstrating gear removal/replacement. In practice I have not found this to be a problem, I simply motion as if I am doing it and most students probably don't even realize that I am not.

The long hose is something that is a bit more complicated. I personally chose to use a traditional short hose setup during the pool labs. It makes demonstrating skills and practicing them with students much simpler. While I feel that they should be exposed to long hose and air2 setups, I feel that it should wait until they are comfortable with the gear setup that they are using. I also feel that Air2s and other similar setups should not be used during early pool sessions if you are going to be demonstrating skills or buddying up with a student.

When it comes time for the open water dives I use my long hose setup. By this time they are comfortable with what they have and I feel that exposing them to other gear setups is beneficial. Yesterday when I was helping with open water dives we had an odd number of students so I buddied up with one of them for the air sharing drills. When it came time for them to share air from my "octo" I decided to switch to my alternate before the drill started and cliped off my primary so that I could donate it to them in the manner that they are used to. As far as they were concerned the only real difference with the drills were that the longer hose made it much more comfortable.

I could get away with diving my long hose setup during all of the pool sessions, but I don't feel that it is ideal so I don't do it. If I was teaching the class myself I might consider using it more if I decided to work it into the curriculum.

~Jess

 

[Oceanus]

Unfortunately the BP&W (Hog) setup just looks less inviting (comfortable) and would probably be a barrier for many OW customers. Hopefully the industry will come around, but consider how this would impact the equipment manufacturers who make all those pretty BCs.... (money's usually at the root) Now with that reality out of the way...

I personally think the entire group, instructors and students, should be using the "rental gear". Kinda like the way folks who pack parachutes are required to randomly jump with one they've packed... if you don't trust/like the gear the students are in nobody should be in it.

As long as the gear is safe you should be able to use it with a smile... if you can't...

 

[rawls]

"Where as it is good to expose the students to a variety of equipment options, too much variety can be confusing at this point of learning."

There you go...Good wisdom...

I like and use the necklace, long hose configurations and b/pw for my diving. I don't like the AIR II. Just personal preference. Rather have an octo. In the pool as a DMC and DM, I used whatever configuration my instructor told me too...And I totally believe that too much variety can be confusing early on...

 

[Crowley]

There you go...Good wisdom...

I like and use the necklace, long hose configurations and b/pw for my diving. I don't like the AIR II. Just personal preference. Rather have an octo. In the pool as a DMC and DM, I used whatever configuration my instructor told me too...And I totally believe that too much variety can be confusing early on...

I agree - I think it's best to Instruct / Assist with what the student divers will be wearing. Student divers, DMs and Instructors are (by PADI standards at least) required to wear a snorkel (exceptions include wreck training), so wear one when you're with students. What you do on your own time is your own business.

You're required to have an alternate air source - this could be any alternate - even a pony bottle. However, I've found that most dive centres / resorts (including my own) will have a standard primary / octopus setup included in their rental package and hence since that's what my students will be wearing, that's what I use.

The PADI Manual says:
The most common alternate air source is the alternate second stage or “octopus,” normally secured in plain view in the triangular area between the chin and the corners of the rib cages. Whether the donor breathes from the primary or the secondary regulator depends upon the regulator configuration and other factors. Generally, it is desirable for the donor to retain the primary regulator and provide the alternate, but alternate inflator regulators and other configurations have the donor give up the primary to the receiver and then switch to the alternate. The important point is that buddies know how each other’s systems work.


Last sentence says it all!

Cheers

C.

 

[b1gcountry]

I personally think the entire group, instructors and students, should be using the "rental gear". Kinda like the way folks who pack parachutes are required to randomly jump with one they've packed... if you don't trust/like the gear the students are in nobody should be in it.

There's a bunch of reasons this wouldn't be prudent. First off, my instructor teaches up to 10 students. He has 11 sets of rental regs. Maybe a few more BCs and fins. There are usually about 6-7 staff at any given OW class. There's just not enough rental sets to go around for staff and students.

Secondly, someone has to pay for rental gear. Either the DMs and instructors have to rent it themselves, or the instructor has to pay to maintain it. The only way to offset this extra cost is to pass it on to the students.

Third, most dive shops are trying to sell gear. Most independent instructors even voice the opinion that it is better for a frequent diver to own and maintain their own equipment. What would students think if they saw all the instructors and DMs wearing rental gear? You are giving them the impression that either a. It's best not to own your own gear, or b. These guys don't even dive enough to own their own gear.

Fourth, I have selected the best gear for me. Other DMs in the class have selected the best gear for them. Rental gear is selected to be the best gear for MOST people. Students check out your gear in the pool, and are very interested in it. They ask a bunch of questions of all the DMs and can even try it out if they ask.

Fifth, I am used to my own gear. I have better trim, comfort, and familiarity with my own gear. If someone comes at me OOA in my own gear, I don't have to think to donate my safe second. If someone comes up to me when I'm wearing an unfamiliar BC, I will have to think. The better familiar I am with my gear, the better I can assist a student in an emergency.

Tom