Inexpensive but not going to get me bent?

[asaara]

I believe so long as you stay within the computers guide lines, and arrange your dives so that the 1st dive is the deepest and the last dive the shortest, you should be fine.

Likelihood of getting your Suunto smashed by a buddy diving an Oceanic when they get sick of all the beeping aside? ;-) What did you consider "a little loaded" on the Oceanic - one bubble in the yellow, more? I'm assuming it didn't beep before that point?

I haven't gotten hit yet just diving tables, but I still feel like every dive is almost a "hail Mary dive" when the only instrument that's dived the exact same profile as I have is my head and my backup is on someone else's wrist or console...particularly when that someone else may not necessarily be my buddy or within hearing range.

I know, logically, that if I stick to my plan, I should be fine, but I'm pretty sure if my brain and my computer didn't agree when I was 100' down, it'd be my computer I'd be trusting. I feel like a luddite ("You can have my analog gauges when you pry them from my cold, dead hands!") and that I'm relying excessively on technology at the same time, but I can't exactly continue relying on somebody *else's* technology forever...

 

[asaara]

The Suunto computer is still going to give you more time than tables as it will credit you for the actual depth you're diving instead of assuming that all your time is spent at the deepest portion of your dive. When planning with tables you assume a square profile that isn't really accurate. That being said, even though you get more time on the computer I highly recommend sticking to your plan. Plan your dive and then dive your plan. Head back even if your computer says you have no-deco time remaining. Pushing any computer to its limits and ignoring your dive plan is a good way to get bent.

What *is* the current official recommendation when the buddy you've been randomly thrown with happens to have a more liberal computer, and you're on tables or a different one and you think it's time to go up, but they don't agree? Is it commonly understood to default to "same day, same ocean", or do you screw up your plan, their dive, or ascend as planned alone and get harassed for abandoning them when you're back on the boat?

I suppose, as far as buddies you don't get to pick go, there is at least one good point to diving with inexperienced, broke, and/or overly cautious ones...that, and the kicking up silt stops temporarily after the runaway ascent. ;-)

 

[Mike Nelson]

In the PADI O/W course I just completed, the official stance was that the buddy team abide by the most conservative computer, or in the case of one buddy with a computer and one using tables, you'd default to the tables.

It would be best to communicate what your plan is before you hit the water - can't really "screw up" someone's dive plan if you've already agreed that coming up together at the most conservative value IS the plan!

 

[Snowbear]

I'm looking for a reasonably inexpensive non-air-integrated wrist computer that's relatively simple to read and operate, handles nitrox, that's reliable and isn't going to get me bent should the math cells in my brain take the day off. PC integration isn't a huge issue, since my main computer is a Mac, but I do have access to Windows machines if the ability to download data is really that amazing a feature to have (mostly looking for something to, strange as it may sound, use in the *water*...).

You lucked out on this one!

No matter which computer you buy, none will actually *cause* or "let you" get your bends. No matter how deep you dive or how dehydrated you are or how fast your ascent rate or how many bounce dives you make or what gas you use or how many "safety stops" you miss!! As long as you keep your computer "happy" you will be "safe," right??!!??

That fatigue and shoulder niggle after thatlast dive that pushed the "limits" of your all too "conservative" Suunto that "gave" you a 3 minute "deco obligation" with a 10' "ceiling" .... the one you added a couple minutes at 15' to "appease" your computer ..... baaaahhhh! .... that fatigue was just 'cause it was only your 2nd dive of the day and it was a long week and you were tired anyhow and the first dive was no shallower than the second and the computer was "happy" with that one .... your computer was in the "green" when you surfaced so since it was "happy" and it's an "overly conservative" computer that tracks your every depth change and calculates your tissue loading several times a second to the most minute detail taking into account your surface intervals there's no possible way on this earth you have done anything to get yourself bent :11:

If you use the computer so you can shut your brain off (or use the excuse of narcosis to say it can't possibly keep track of a dive as well as that infallible computer), you get to blame your bends on "bad luck" since your computer "said" you were "fine" when you post your "undeserved hit" in the accidents forum ..... this works especially well when you use the more "conservative" models, but can also be used with the others as well.

 

[mac_diver]

The online version of scuba diving magazine has some recent chamber tests that show the difference between different computers. The biggest difference appeared to be when doing reverse profile dives. The liberal computers didn't penalize for these profiles while the conservative computers significantly reduced the dive time remaining. A few years back, there was a conference on reverse profiles (I don't recall if it was NAUI or DAN). At the end of the conference, there was no agreement on whether reverse profiles lead to an increase risk of the bends. I haven't been able to find anything more current showing that reverse profiles are bad.

When researching computers, I came across some advice on NJScuba.com that made sense to me. First is that no manufacturer designs a computer to bend you. All computers are designed to keep you from getting bent. The differences lie in what the manufacturers believe are important factors other than straight bottom time. Secondly, you can always dive a liberal computer more conservatively.

I add conservatism to my dives in many ways even though I dive probably the most liberal computer there is (Cochran Commander EMC-16). I set the user adjustable conservative factor pn my computer to give bottom times simular to the NAUI tables for the first dive. I do a deep stop at half my bottom depth for 1 to 2 minutes then do 3 to 5 minutes at 15. feet. (the longer times are for dives at or below 90 ft).

Divers have the most control over whether they get bent by maintaining slow ascents throughout the entire dive and by keeping well hydrated.

 

[Web Monkey]

While not exactly scientific evidence (probably has more to do with the teaching than the computer), the shop I use has sold a boat load of Uwatec's over the years and AFAIK, none of the divers has gotten bent.

I've been very happy with my SmartCom, which has been reasonably conservative, but is also quick to respond to changes in depth, both by adjusting the NDL and RBT when you ascend, and by loudly complaining if you start to ascend too quickly.

It is gray and chunky, but this also means that it has a huge display that you can easily read in really bad conditions, and that the battery lasts for years and the replacement is free.

The Uwatec software is very Windows-friendly (uses the standard Windows database drivers and normal API calls), so I would expect it to run on a Mac with a Windows emulator, however, the software is free to download, so you can certainly give it a try before you decide to get the computer.

Terry

Other than Oceanic seems to be the most likely to get you bent if you don't also remember what your tables said, and that you're more likely to go deaf than get bent diving a Suunto, where do the others (like the big grey chunky ones - Uwatec? - that seem extremely common in some places) fit in? How much less time do you get on a Suunto compared to tables, who here's gotten bent on an Oceanic?


I'm looking for a reasonably inexpensive non-air-integrated wrist computer that's relatively simple to read and operate, handles nitrox, that's reliable and isn't going to get me bent should the math cells in my brain take the day off. PC integration isn't a huge issue, since my main computer is a Mac, but I do have access to Windows machines if the ability to download data is really that amazing a feature to have (mostly looking for something to, strange as it may sound, use in the *water*...).

And am I on crack, or is the girl in the bikini on the beach in the 2006 Oceanic catalog actually running their software, advertised as Windows-only, on a Mac laptop??? How do they *do* that? That could be a factor in deciding, if something did run on a Mac...I used VirtualPC on another (not significantly older) Mac than my current one, and it hosed a bunch of my programs, uninstalling VPC and reinstalling the OS (not to a degree that it'd wipe my drive or system settings - wasn't willing to do that) didn't help...

 

[*Floater*]

If you want something conservative and cheap, then check out Mares M1 from scubastore. Right now it's $185 with free shipping.

DiveRite's NiTek Duo is also a reasonably priced computer and it will let you to use two gases per dive so it's better for decompression diving than most other computers in its price range. Ask NESS for a price quote. They usually have good prices for the DiveRite brand.

For something more liberal, look at the Versa Pro from scubatoys. They probably still have a special on that and they give 10% discount to scubaboard members if you ask, so it comes out to about $250 with shipping.

For Suuntos, contact divetank.com- they have good prices.

Just do a search for the particular model your are thinking of before buying it and you'll see both the good and the bad mentioned.

 

[emelotto]

As the Asaara said, we have a lot off comparisons when diving and always we guess that others computers are better than yours...I have analized 2 dives I've done in Cozumel because my Mosquito got Error afterthat.

What I could see is that in the first dive I ignored 2 min safety stop (31m deepest and 19m average for 37min). At the second dive (1h later), I ignored the mandatory stop in more than 15 min (21m deepest and 13m average for 58min).
Of course all of this was stupid, but now I can see the difference between suunto and others. The dive master just have done a 5 min stop and his computer didn't blamed.

Looking on the graphs, I saw a mark advising we should extend the surface time, 2 marks of quick ascending (more or less from 16m to 12m) and one about passing ceiling mandatory stop (when I got error). As you know, we always do a drift dive in Cozumel and you must follow the dive master in order to get the exit, always exist a little rush to start and to finish...

Well, after all explanations, my question is...what do you think about put the mosquito with 24% Nitrox instead air? The simulation I have done whit those dive profiles shows that I couldn't do only the safety stop and I woud not loose the last two dives.

Some people who thinks suunto is too conservative told me to do that.

 

[asaara]

You lucked out on this one!

No matter which computer you buy, none will actually *cause* or "let you" get your bends. No matter how deep you dive or how dehydrated you are or how fast your ascent rate or how many bounce dives you make or what gas you use or how many "safety stops" you miss!! As long as you keep your computer "happy" you will be "safe," right??!!??

That fatigue and shoulder niggle after thatlast dive that pushed the "limits" of your all too "conservative" Suunto that "gave" you a 3 minute "deco obligation" with a 10' "ceiling" .... the one you added a couple minutes at 15' to "appease" your computer ..... baaaahhhh! .... that fatigue was just 'cause it was only your 2nd dive of the day and it was a long week and you were tired anyhow and the first dive was no shallower than the second and the computer was "happy" with that one .... your computer was in the "green" when you surfaced so since it was "happy" and it's an "overly conservative" computer that tracks your every depth change and calculates your tissue loading several times a second to the most minute detail taking into account your surface intervals there's no possible way on this earth you have done anything to get yourself bent :11:

If you use the computer so you can shut your brain off (or use the excuse of narcosis to say it can't possibly keep track of a dive as well as that infallible computer), you get to blame your bends on "bad luck" since your computer "said" you were "fine" when you post your "undeserved hit" in the accidents forum ..... this works especially well when you use the more "conservative" models, but can also be used with the others as well.

Congratulations on being so perfect that you never have, and are quite certain you never will accidentally make a mistake with any calculation, forget something, or have your mind wander off for a second, *ever*.

I find it somewhat hard to believe that nobody here *ever* second-guesses themselves and their calculations...somehow, it merely seems more likely that nobody's willing to admit to being less than 100% perfect *all* the time...how much better is the "undeserved hit" when your brain said you were just fine but your computer was beeping like a smoke detector near burnt toast? Your ego isn't necessarily always reliable protection against getting bent.

So I'm supposing that the main reason many posters on this thread has a computer is for the pretty logging functions and the graphs you can post to see who's dives and software were the coolest, and the fact that you can get a digital read out of your air/depth/time rather than *shudder* analog? Since, obviously, you don't use it to get more bottom time than you would from tables alone, because then you're just asking for it...

And of course, *I* deserve to get hit even diving within table limits, simply because I was stupid enough to ask a question about the real-life differences between different brands and algorithms...if I were asking about an air integrated computer, would I be have people throwing J-valves at my head? May as well go all out and mention I dive with a jacket BCD and just sit around waiting for the angry people with the torches and boards with nails poking out of them to break down my door, demanding to see how I wear my mask when I'm sitting at the computer typing...

 

[ianr33]

Now now asaara calm down..............

The point that we have been making is that no computer is gauranteed to not bend you.You seem to want a computer to replace your brain,which is not such a good idea. A computer is a great tool,just dont turn off the manual override/