Incident at White Star Quarry, 6/9/09

[Chel]

With all due respect - I believe that the deputy in question said he would never ask anybody to do that dive. He didn't say he wouldn't do it himself. I agree with Thal that if this particular PSD wouldn't do this dive then he is in the wrong line of work, however I will give him the benefit of doubt that he was referring to asking someone else being asked to do that dive with an unknown level of training versus someone who has the appropriate training.

Hi Guys,

Though I am a long time fan of ScubaBoard, I do not post very often, but couldn't stay quiet on this one.

ScubaMoose was right on - I was there that day, on the scene a few minutes after the incident began. While Patrix said he would not ask or expect anyone else to begin a rescue with 300 psi, what he has been too humble to mention is that he in fact was one of the first to grab gear and go in to get her.

I am not just comfortable with being in his jurisdiction, I am proud to be and the reaction of him and the other people spoken about on this post was nothing short of heroic.

If there was ever a chance of a positive outcome on something like this it couldn't be greater than with the folks and the facilities at Whitestar that day.

A number of people responded to the call without hesitation or calculating the risks - something I have not seen in accident scenes in other areas of my life. I have never been able to describe diving as a sport - to me its a lifestyle, it becomes part of who you are. These people were not going to let a fellow diver die on their watch and it just demonstrates yet again to me what a fantastic community we are all part of.

Sappy? Yes, but its my two-cents for what its worth!

 

[Thalassamania]

ScubaMoose was right on - I was there that day, on the scene a few minutes after the incident began. While Patrix said he would not ask or expect anyone else to begin a rescue with 300 psi, what he has been too humble to mention is that he in fact was one of the first to grab gear and go in to get her.

I am not just comfortable with being in his jurisdiction, I am proud to be and the reaction of him and the other people spoken about on this post was nothing short of heroic.

That's good to hear, thank you.

 

[DandyDon]

Wow that was an interesting discussion. I lost sight with a member of a trio on the crowded surface of Santa Rosa NM's Blue Hole once. Once I was sure he wasn't on the surface, I hollared at my usual buddy that we had to go search the 84 ft deep hole for him, but he refused as he only had 500 psi. No time to argue; I descended on my 19 cf pony alone, keeping my 500 in my back 80 for reserve; did what felt like a good search; ran the pony out on ascent and switched back to my back gas for a second safety stop. I didn't want to go back to his car in the middle of the lot and tell his crippled wife that I just didn't know, but I tried to keep "don't become a victim (too)" hot in my mind.

We discussed this incident in depth at the time on Near Misses, with critics. I don't want to sidetrack this thread with that discussion all over. I could find the thread if needed.​

So I'm thinking as I read thru this, no - I wouldn't ask anyone else to do the 40 ft/300 psi search; I would in a heartbeat, but I wouldn't ask anyone else - just give me your gear fast.

My lost diver had simply left the hole while we other two were distracted, and when he heard what I'd done - he left town within minutes. Never heard from him again, nor want to. My regular buddy also left the hole while I was searching, but we have resolved that issue.

Back to the accident: Gear failure, BC inflator coming lose, and again - diver forgets basic training about dumping weights? Is that what happened...?

Glad she's with the living at least.

 

[stevejaz]

Hi Guys,

ScubaMoose was right on - I was there that day, on the scene a few minutes after the incident began. While Patrix said he would not ask or expect anyone else to begin a rescue with 300 psi, what he has been too humble to mention is that he in fact was one of the first to grab gear and go in to get her.

Good to hear, I'm sure most would do the same and attempt the rescue but wouldn't bestow it upon another for the same reason they'd attempt the rescue. Nobody wants to live with the thought they could have done something just as they'd also hate to live with the thought they asked someone to do something that lead to their demise. If that makes sense.

Cudos to all involved and I hope she makes a full recovery!

Steve

 

[Jim Lapenta]

I also know Patrix from the Ohio Council of Skin and Scuba Divers. I don't doubt for a minute that he would have went in with 300 in a tank. I'm also pretty certain that he would not advise anyone else to do it. I would have done the same but if a newly certed student of mine tried it we would have had a VERY INTERESTING discussion!

 

[TheScubaBOB]

SO the rescueeee comes last in priority..(why bother?)..no offence intended, But I shall always keep that in mind.

Take the Rescue Diver Course, then you'll understand.

The point isn't that the Victim isn't important. The point is that you need to determine if you can safely rescue the victim.

In this case the closest diver was a new diver with only 300psi. He has not rescue training, say he gets down to the victim, now he has to figure out how to raise her to the surface. Sure you say drop weights & valve tow her to surface but remember this is a real situation and he doesn't have any training. That 300 PSI gets gone real fast on him. Now we have 2 victims.

With a trained Rescue Diver you have to know what your limits are, they won't be the same as the new diver but you will still have limits. For example you wouldn't drop to 90 ft on 300 PSI to begin a search for a lost diver.

As much as I would do to try to help someone else in a bad spot I won't rise my ability to return home to my 3 children & wife.

 

[DandyDon]

In all rescue operations it is the saftey of the rescuer that comes first. If the rescuer is trapped or injured then that resource is gone and 2 more crews will need to be brought in to rescue the original victem and now the rescuer that needs help. saftey considerations are made as self 1st, crew 2nd, public 3rd, and then the patient.

I do not think he meant that rescuers should not take risks. Life is full of risks, which we try to manage safely, and scuba more so. When caca hits fan, you learn then what you will do, but it helps to think, train, prepare, within prudent parameters - and we're taught in rescue course to not let ourselves become the second victim. I imagine that most who take the course, spend the money, do the time & work, etc know that they are individuals who would sacrifice some safety to help another so want to do so better and safer.

For example you wouldn't drop to 90 ft on 300 PSI to begin a search for a lost diver.

I'd try not to. Hopefully more good can be accomplished with other nearby resources by alerting those. If I was the only one available tho, gosh - I hope I never have to decide. I can drop faster than most tho, and have experienced a CESA, so I might - watching my SPG closely. Wouldn't ask anyone else to, no.

 

[Thalassamania]

 

[dumpsterDiver]

Take the Rescue Diver Course, then you'll understand.

For example you wouldn't drop to 90 ft on 300 PSI to begin a search for a lost diver.

As much as I would do to try to help someone else in a bad spot I won't rise my ability to return home to my 3 children & wife.

I would definitely drop to 90 feet on 300 psi if I thought I knew exactly where the diver was. I would be ashamed to face my three kids if I diidn't.


Where do you people come up with this stuff?

Sounds like a couple of heros saved a life that day!

 

[DandyDon]

I would definitely drop to 90 feet on 300 psi if I thought I knew exactly where the diver was. I would be ashamed to face my three kids if I diidn't.

Ok, and your are tremendously more qualified than I, as well as probly twice as good on air. But yeah, the previously mentioned idea was "begin a search" not "if I thought I knew exactly where the diver was." Another difference; your suggestion would be an easier challenge to consider.