Inappropriate moderator behavior?

[beanojones]

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A ScubaBoard Staff Message...

This post, and the two first replies, have been moved from the thread "Expelled PADI instructor?".

To avoid undue suspicion about suppressing relevant criticism, we have decided to allow this discussion, however in the appropriate forum. The posts have also been edited for language and direct personal attacks to comply with the ToS. For full transparency, it is clearly indicated where the original posts have been edited.


Storker
SB Moderator

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Any achievement I have made in getting instructors to teach while neutrally buoyant, as PADI now clearly recommends, was done despite your fierce, fervid, and continual opposition. Making those changes would have been much easier, if only in the minds of the PADI instructors watching the debates on ScubaBoard and trying to form a judgment, if you had not been insisting over and over and over and over again that teaching while neutrally buoyant--as you now say people have been doing for years--was a violation of standards that could get one expelled. You continued to insist that was so even when confronted with direct and clear language from PADI that there was no violation of standards for teaching while neutral.

As for your ability to interpret PADI policies, let's look at the record. When I quoted LeRoy Wickham of PADI, who wrote in the clearest possible language that it was permissible to teach students while they are neutrally buoyant from the very beginning of the class and that no standards were being violated for doing so, you responded by stating that his statement proved that it was NOT permissible to teach neutrally buoyant because it WAS a violation of standards. When PADI President and CEO Drew Richardson praised that approach after our article appeared in the PADI professional journal, you (along with devondiver) continued to insist that it was a violation of standards that could get one expelled, saying that Drew Richardson's personal opinion was his alone and did not reflect actual PADI policy.

People reading this thread can judge accordingly. Knowing that you have a history of insisting that your interpretation of PADI policies is correct even when that interpretation is directly contradicted by both quotations of written policies and explanations from PADI officials will be telling to readers. That will help them decide whom to believe.

(No, they can't really. You carry a torch for me that I just don't understand. Or maybe I can. You [redacted] abuse your position as a mod to 'win' arguments. Watch this exchange disappear magically as well! It's hilarious that you even suggest that people can make their own judgments when you use your position as a mod to delete or ban opposing viewpoints.

I think part of what you see as fierce and fervid (wow, I am all a-tingle just writing those words) just comes from the idea that someone with more experience, training, and ratings than you might not automatically think you are right just because you say it is so.

I said, in total, none of those things, and you should know that since you actually can go back and read those posts since you seem to remember them so vividly. I would never say that someone should not teach neutral buoyancy, especially since not doing so injures people in places like Hawaii where we do confined and open water training in the ocean, always with surge present. That's why we started teaching neutral way back before the beginning of time, because ruined knees on wetsuits and bleeding knee-caps don't make for fun classes.

I would gladly also drag that conversation out of the PRIVATE INSTRUCTOR's FORUM like you just tried to do by misremembering what I said. But since you have the ability to ban people, and use it when they disagree with you, and used that to ban me for talking to you like you talk to me, I can no longer go and find the posts to show you I said no such thing. But you know what, even if I could, I still would not drag conversations from the PRIVATE INSTRUCTOR'S FORUM out here, because I take that rule dead seriously. I am in a position of authority as a dive instructor, and with that authority comes some serious responsibility. I wish you would take some responsibility too. But of course you won't. You'll just keep [redacted] playing the ad hominem game, and ban and delete when you think you are not winning the internet point scoring contest.

Well, we both know why I cannot (even though I would not) go grab quotes from the post to point out how badly you are misrepresenting what I actually said in the PRIVATE INSTRUCTOR'S FORUM. But of course as a "senior moderator", you won't get slapped for dragging three year half remembered mistruths out of the PRIVATE INSTRUCTOR's FORUM. Even though that is clear violation of that forum's rules, as has been pointed out to you previously. Why not just pretend to be an adult, where the topic is at issue and not the personality, and especially not some torch you have for me? Regardless of the above, it's stunning that you completely ignore the actual conversation in my post.)

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A ScubaBoard Staff Message...

The subsequent paragraphs of this post were not relevant to the issue in this thread, but rather addressed issues relevant to the original thread, and have therefore been removed from this post

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[boulderjohn]

(No, they can't really. You carry a torch for me that I just don't understand. Or maybe I can. You [redacted] abuse your position as a mod to 'win' arguments. Watch this exchange disappear magically as well! It's hilarious that you even suggest that people can make their own judgments when you use your position as a mod to delete or ban opposing viewpoints.

I think part of what you see as fierce and fervid (wow, I am all a-tingle just writing those words) just comes from the idea that someone with more experience, training, and ratings than you might not automatically think you are right just because you say it is so.

I said, in total, none of those things, and you should know that since you actually can go back and read those posts since you seem to remember them so vividly. I would never say that someone should not teach neutral buoyancy, especially since not doing so injures people in places like Hawaii where we do confined and open water training in the ocean, always with surge present. That's why we started teaching neutral way back before the beginning of time, because ruined knees on wetsuits and bleeding knee-caps don't make for fun classes.

I would gladly also drag that conversation out of the PRIVATE INSTRUCTOR's FORUM like you just tried to do by misremembering what I said. But since you have the ability to ban people, and use it when they disagree with you, and used that to ban me for talking to you like you talk to me, I can no longer go and find the posts to show you I said no such thing. But you know what, even if I could, I still would not drag conversations from the PRIVATE INSTRUCTOR'S FORUM out here, because I take that rule dead seriously. I am in a position of authority as a dive instructor, and with that authority comes some serious responsibility. I wish you would take some responsibility too. But of course you won't. You'll just keep [redacted] playing the ad hominem game, and ban and delete when you think you are not winning the internet point scoring contest.

Well, we both know why I cannot (even though I would not) go grab quotes from the post to point out how badly you are misrepresenting what I actually said in the PRIVATE INSTRUCTOR'S FORUM. But of course as a "senior moderator", you won't get slapped for dragging three year half remembered mistruths out of the PRIVATE INSTRUCTOR's FORUM. Even though that is clear violation of that forum's rules, as has been pointed out to you previously. Why not just pretend to be an adult, where the topic is at issue and not the personality, and especially not some torch you have for me? Regardless of the above, it's stunning that you completely ignore the actual conversation in my post.)

I will respond only briefly to say that the actions of which I am accused in this post are very much in violation of the rules moderators follow, and they cannot be done in secret. Every moderator, including the ScubaBoard ownership, can see clearly what happened. In contentious issues like this, moderators do not ever moderate the discussions in which they are participating. Those discussions are moderated by others, usually after a long consultation in "the back room." In those discussions, our actions within the thread are very much under the review and the criticism of the rest of the moderating staff; when we screw up in a thread, we are told so in no uncertain terms by the other moderators.

Since you have openly accused me of inappropriate moderation, all you have to do is send a complaint to abuse@scuibaboard.com. It will come to the attention of Pete Murray (Netdoc-the owner of ScuibaBoard), who will act upon it. If your charges are even remotely true, I will be removed from my moderator position. Be sure to cite the specific instances in which I acted inappropriately.

 

[The Chairman]

Or maybe I can. You [redacted] abuse your position as a mod to 'win' arguments. Watch this exchange disappear magically as well! It's hilarious that you even suggest that people can make their own judgments when you use your position as a mod to delete or ban opposing viewpoints.

I going to call complete and utter BS here. For those who don't know what an ad hominem is, this is it. Attacking John's integrity because he disagrees with you is wrong. What it shows is a lack of integrity on your part and an inability to counter with a logically coherent answer. Then you double down on the fallacious attack by suggesting that it will be edited. Shame on you. We're going to leave it up just so people can see what a manipulator you are. You've lost my respect here.

For the reasonable people on the forum: Mods aren't allowed to moderate threads they are posting in as users. They're simply not allowed to use their powers to win an argument. They were selected by the other mods for their leadership under fire. In other words, how they reacted to when people disagreed with them before they were mods. This is the very reason why we would never ask beanojones to be a moderator: she fights dirty.