Inappropriate customer

[Wheeler925]

Does it matter?

What happened is totally unacceptable wherever it happens!

Yes, because depending on where, geographically, could change expectations and what your proper response could or should be. Denying that is a bit ludicrous

 

[Sascha314]

Sorry for your experience!

Actually that is a good idea - "this is training and you need to be more careful with your hands, though in a real situation your priority is saving a life."

Your situation sounds diff. This man touched me weirdly at the surface multiple times during an explanation that didn't require being touched at all. If it had been something unintentional during the I conscious rescue - very different. Don't worry, but it is good you are being vigilant.

Thanks. Well its ok for me now. I mentioned it, because actually the hardest part to accept it right now is, that I did not speak up at that moment.

Yes, because depending on where, geographically, could change expectations and what your proper response could or should be. Denying that is a bit ludicrous

I do not think your answer is appropriate.at all. Trying to discuss these facts away is not better than doing it yourself.
I believe its a common strategy of people who do such things is to attack the victim in such a way. Especially a common fact is to ignore the feeling and statement and try to force the discussion into a direction in which the victim might accept or even feel at fault herself. One should speak up against such behaviour as well, I have a big disrespect for this.

And to answer your question: It is not ok to behave like this anywhere in the world. And it does not matter where it happened, one should speak up.
But unfortunately you are right in a sense, that it is more likely to happen in some areas than others. But that is no excuse nor should one accept it.

 

[FreqFlier]

At the end of a day your reaction to this issue in the water should be the same as on the ground, whatever you feel it should be.

Tricky part is when you are a service provider (DM in training) to a paying customer. There is always a fine line to walk in this business, but you should not take it without letting your customer and your superior (in this case instructor) know right away. Always better to prevent reoccurrences.

an instructor immediately take a man's hand off an area with her hand (grasped around the wrist) underwater and show him the appropriate place to put it. Then a finger wag to show not to do that.

That's exactly what I tell my DM's in training to do to avoid or minimize the chance of issue being intentional.

 

[Sascha314]

I never said it was ok anywhere in the world, but in some places how you respond would get you stoned. Clearly you have no intention of discussing in good faith.

Well you kept asking despite it was clear she does not want to answer that publicly. I do not think that specifically this is ok.

Ok you srenright, that in some places on earth it will be more difficult. Agreed, nevertheless you then need a non aggressive approach to first say no. Then maybe you need.slmeine to help, if it continues - dive shop or maybe certification agency of this dive shop or authorities. However that should not be a reason to shut up.

 

[scubadada]

Hi @kastuk

I would suggest calmly confronting the customer and telling them to not touch you again like that. There may be additional conversation where you can point out how it was inappropriate. I would not issue any threats but simply say that if it happens again you will report it to the instructor/operator/other appropriate person(s). If it recurs, you should follow up as you stated.

This recent occurrence will give you the opportunity to broach the topic with the instructor you worked with and the operator you work for. Hopefully, they will be fully supportive of you and will be prepared should it happen again and you report it.

Are there other women working with your operator who you can discuss this with?

Best of luck in your scuba future

 

[kastuk]

I never said it was ok anywhere in the world, but in some places how you respond would get you stoned. Clearly you have no intention of discussing in good faith.

And none of your messages came across in good faith from the start so I didn't bother responding. In fact, you implied I'd post once and then disappear - not sure why I'd have any inclination to tell you exactly where in the world I am given your reactions, especially given the sensitive nature of this post. The man who harassed me was a white French man on vacation. I'm not sure what your purposes are in this thread but none of it was A) advice, or B) considerate.

 

[kastuk]

Hi @kastuk

I would suggest calmly confronting the customer and telling them to not touch you again like that. There may be additional conversation where you can point out how it was inappropriate. I would not issue any threats but simply say that if it happens again you will report it to the instructor/operator/other appropriate person(s). If it recurs, you should follow up as you stated.

This recent occurrence will give you the opportunity to broach the topic with the instructor you worked with and the operator you work for. Hopefully, they will be fully supportive of you and will be prepared should it happen again and you report it.

Are there other women working with your operator who you can discuss this with?

Best of luck in your scuba future

Yes thank you. I think in general being so new I didn't know how to react especially to a paying customer. The shop and instructor were sympathetic, and yes there are other women I was able to ask advice with.

The future will be a stern moving of the hand and a verbal correction (if it feels safe).

 

[Tracy]

Hello,

I'm a divemaster in training and was assisting with a rescue course a few weeks back with an older man. He was very touchy - my butt was touched multiple times, my chest, etc, along with inappropriate jokes. Problem is he did it in a way that it could be perceived as an accident. I'm trying to not gaslight myself into saying it was an accident because it was definitely at best a violation of boundaries he should know at his age not to cross with a woman and at worst completely intentional and an abuse of power since it was fully out of the view of the instructor.

I don't know how to tell the dive instructor because I'm worried he won't believe me or brush it off as "well it's a rescue, of course he will touch you." Of course, then I'd say "what rescue requires cupping the buttocks?" But still, uncomfortable.

Any dive professionals who have had to deal with customers like this? I've been a bartender so I know how men can be, but then they couldn't touch me. Also I know a lot of women who deal with weird masculinity in diving environments and so I'm worried that other professionals don't take it seriously enough.

What would you do? What do you do in these situations?

I am a man, not a particularly attractive man. So the odds of this happening to me are slim and I don't have your perspective on it.
I work with a lot of female students. Literally almost half of my students. One of my concerns when teaching is something I do or accidently touch could be taken wrong. In courses that have direct contact, I go out of my way to brief what I will be doing. Where my hands will be, what they are doing. I check and double check that there are no reservations about it.
There isn't any possible way a student could accidently grab your butt multiple times and not realize it. It obviously couldn't be an accident. I would report it to the instructor and have the student removed from the course. If your instructor even hesitates or states it was probably an accident, they are an idiot and you probably don't want to pursue training with them.
Sorry you have to deal with this.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

Hello,

I'm a divemaster in training and was assisting with a rescue course a few weeks back with an older man. He was very touchy - my butt was touched multiple times, my chest, etc, along with inappropriate jokes. Problem is he did it in a way that it could be perceived as an accident. I'm trying to not gaslight myself into saying it was an accident because it was definitely at best a violation of boundaries he should know at his age not to cross with a woman and at worst completely intentional and an abuse of power since it was fully out of the view of the instructor.

I don't know how to tell the dive instructor because I'm worried he won't believe me or brush it off as "well it's a rescue, of course he will touch you." Of course, then I'd say "what rescue requires cupping the buttocks?" But still, uncomfortable.

Any dive professionals who have had to deal with customers like this? I've been a bartender so I know how men can be, but then they couldn't touch me. Also I know a lot of women who deal with weird masculinity in diving environments and so I'm worried that other professionals don't take it seriously enough.

What would you do? What do you do in these situations?

So I am a man, but with a young daughter (extremely attractive, that's not Papa's bias either). How would my daughter deal with this situation? While she's only 5, if her behavior from when she was in daycare is any indicator, she'd knee the guy in the nuts so hard his testicles fly out of his ears, legal consequences or not (which would really escalate things in a bad way for that person). She will be learning MMA and sometimes I teach her some boxing.

Definitely always speak up, and speak up loudly. Make sure as many people can hear you. If your instructor or dive center does not back you up, get out of there. It just isn't worth it. There's a lot of shiitty aspects of the dive industry and allowing customers treat female staff that way does happen, but it is never acceptable.

I would also go to the local police station and speak to someone about the next time, as there unfortunately will likely be a next time, to find out where is the line where there are no legal repercussions for you. So when it happens, you can go right up to that edge.

As Mr. In-Between says, there reason there are so many аsshοles is because they are allowed to get away with it.

 

[tursiops]

So I am a man, but with a young daughter (extremely attractive, that's not Papa's bias either). How would my daughter deal with this situation? While she's only 5, if her behavior from when she was in daycare is any indicator, she'd knee the guy in the nuts so hard his testicles fly out of his ears, legal consequences or not (which would really escalate things in a bad way for that person). She will be learning MMA and sometimes I teach her some boxing.

Definitely always speak up, and speak up loudly. Make sure as many people can hear you. If your instructor or dive center does not back you up, get out of there. It just isn't worth it. There's a lot of shiitty aspects of the dive industry and allowing customers treat female staff that way does happen, but it is never acceptable.

I would also go to the local police station and speak to someone about the next time, as there unfortunately will likely be a next time, to find out where is the line where there are no legal repercussions for you. So when it happens, you can go right up to that edge.

As Mr. In-Between says, there reason there are so many аsshοles is because they are allowed to get away with it.

I rarely give a Bullseye to wetb4, but I did on this one.