In search of the driest upside-down breather...Atomics Z2x...your thoughts?

[a22shady]

I have a scubapro MK17/G250v Long/Short hose and I play around on purpose upside doing flips when I am Just BS havin fun I am in shallow waters 20' and I have not yet Gotten water in my mouth. I also Have aquired an Atomic M1 I have not used the 1st stage yet but i have the 2nd on my MK17 and Breathes just as great and while I have not had much time playing with I have done the same while in the pool and still dont get water

 

[Sas]

I have Scubapro MK11 S555 + R295, which until about a month ago were completely dry in any position (both second stages). The S555 has started leaking a tad though in the last month. (done I guess, 280 dives).

I just bought two sets of Zeagle DSV/ZX regs, and they are dry in any position. My buddy has Atomic regs (sorry not sure what type, the mid range one I believe). Again, these have not leaked in any position when I have used them.

Another buddy had Scubapro MK17 with X650 and another with Apeks XTX50 and they have not leaked either when I have borrowed them. Another friend had SP MK25/R395 and they leaked *tonnes* the first time I used them but I recently borrowed them again for about a week and they didn't leak at all, had been serviced in between the times I borrowed them.

So to me, it is weird for a reg to leak rather than the other way around! I like to be upside down underwater also... Perhaps it has to do with how they are adjusted? No idea, could be way off there.

The Zeagles have been the easiest regs to breathe from out of all of them though.

 

[halocline]

I'm a double hose fan, but buying one because you're looking for a reg that breathes well in all positions is a mistake. In fact, doublehose regs are FAR more sensitive to position changes than single hose regs. If you're on your back looking up with a well-adjusted doublehose get ready for a freeflow, because the mouthpiece will be a good 3-4" shallower than the cans.

In terms of dry breathing when the reg is diaphragm up, that's a function of the exhaust valve and can change markedly from one regulator to the next, even identical models. You just have to get a good-fitting exhaust valve. I've had G250s, D300s, and balanced adjustables, some of each breathe dry and others wet when inverted.

In terms of ease of breathing when inverted, the D series SP regs are hands down winners. You'll have to buy one used, they don't make them anymore. The exhaust valve is coaxial on the diaphragm and my experience is that some breathe "wetter" than others when inverted, but you can always change that by getting a new diaphragm and exhaust valve. The reg case does not come into play because the exhaust valve mounts on the diaphragm, not the case.

Every "conventional" 2nd stage will breathe harder when you're looking directly up, but I am convinced it has nothing to do with the position of the reg in relation to your lungs. There's another thread on this topic currently going on. Better performing 2nd stages will breathe more easily overall, so the effect might be less noticeable or bothersome.

 

[coralcruiser]

Find yourself a used OCEANIC OMEGA II.

I couldn't agree with you more! However, I might be a bit biased since I have been diving with one for 22 years.

Thought I might have to get a new reg recently since mine just didn't seem to breathe as easily as it used to but....................................... the guy that owns a dive shop near me was able to order all new parts to rebuild mine!!

I have another omega second that I bought to use for parts but may now get that rebuilt as well.... not sure yet if I will keep it or sell it since I really don't need 2 of them.

 

[Hatul]

Find yourself a used OCEANIC OMEGA II.

I think this was another side diaphragm reg. My Oceanic Delta 2 is very bad upside down.

Adam

 

[John C. Ratliff]

Just a small correction for the post by Mattboy; the double hose regulatory won't free flow in the inverted position unless you take the regulator mouthpiece out of your mouth, or open your mouth wide and do not maintain a seal there. Yes, the mouthpiece is at a lesser pressure, but it is a "closed loop," with the exhaust hose going back to the regulator and the duckbill just over the diaphragm (when inverted). Because of this, it is "balanced" to the water pressure. This, by the way, was the instrumental part of the Cousteau patent, as the rest of the demand regulator had already been invented for regulating propane to car engines by Emile Gagnan and his associates at Air Liquide during the German occupation in WWII.

SeaRat

 

[coralcruiser]

I think this was another side diaphragm reg. My Oceanic Delta 2 is very bad upside down.

Adam

The omega is a servo-assist side exhaust similar in looks to the poseidon jetstream.

 

[halocline]

Just a small correction for the post by Mattboy; the double hose regulatory won't free flow in the inverted position unless you take the regulator mouthpiece out of your mouth, or open your mouth wide and do not maintain a seal there. Yes, the mouthpiece is at a lesser pressure, but it is a "closed loop," with the exhaust hose going back to the regulator and the duckbill just over the diaphragm (when inverted). Because of this, it is "balanced" to the water pressure. This, by the way, was the instrumental part of the Cousteau patent, as the rest of the demand regulator had already been invented for regulating propane to car engines by Emile Gagnan and his associates at Air Liquide during the German occupation in WWII.

SeaRat

John, you're correct about this in general, but I have had both my dh regs flow in this position; I can usually stop it by putting a little exhale pressure on the mouthpiece, but once I let it flow it won't stop unless I stop it, and it's very noticeable.

I love diving with both my RAM and PRAM, I wouldn't try to steer anyone away from dh, but the OP did say he wanted something that would breathe consistently in all positions, and that's not a dh.

 

[Nemrod]

I am in the market to replace my regulator and my computer. I have owned way too many regulators to count over the past 10 years and the one thing that I cannot find is a reg that breaths dry when I am either upside down, looking up, or belly up. Being an instructor, I always am looking up for one reason or another and I always seem to get water in my mouth. I have learned to expect it so it doesn't visibly affect me (my students can't tell how uncomfortable I am now), but it used to be really bad. Anyway, does anyone have any advice on an extremely dry reg? I am looking at the Atomics Z2x and I really like it! But I really would like to know how it breaths upside-down. On the website and on ScubaLab, it says breaths easy "in all positions" but I really don't want a generalization. I need a "it breathes awesome upside-down!!" spelled out for me...hahaha. So anyone have experience with the Z2x that can comment or can offer a drier reg?
Thanks!

Simple physics make it impossible for a single hose regulator to breath as easily upside down as right side up:

But then there is this, a Voit Navy with Phoenix conversion, smooth, dry, breaths great upside down:

The old Omega II and Tekna T2100 servo valve regulators did OK upside down but they tended to breath wet like all side exhaust regulators tend to, espeically the Omega.

N

 

[John C. Ratliff]

John, you're correct about this in general, but I have had both my dh regs flow in this position; I can usually stop it by putting a little exhale pressure on the mouthpiece, but once I let it flow it won't stop unless I stop it, and it's very noticeable.

I love diving with both my RAM and PRAM, I wouldn't try to steer anyone away from dh, but the OP did say he wanted something that would breathe consistently in all positions, and that's not a dh.

Mattboy,

What you are describing is a relatively modern problem, and has to do with the positioning of the duckbill inside the case of the new, very high-performing double hose regulators. The duckbills need to extend beyond the center of the diaphragm, and lay flat against the diaphragm so that they effectively are at the same, or lower water pressure as the center of the diaphragm. If you look at your duckbill, my bets are that it comes out of the exhalation horn and does not get within half an inch of the center of the diaphragm. These regulators now have a suction effort as good as or better than the best single hose regulators (especially the Royal Aquamaster, the Phoenix Royal Aquamaster, and the Mossback Mk 3 Aquamaster). That means that it requires less than half an inch of water pressure to initiate flow. If the duckbill is not within half an inch of the center of the diaphargm, that little bit of water pressure will initiate (or sustain) flow. So a differential in pressure that you describe can be fixed by extending the duckbill beyond the center, and ensuring that it is flat against the diaphragm. Here is a thread where I explained this concept way back in 2004.

After reading this, you may want to revise your comment about the consistency of the double hose as a breathing machine--it is one of the best available. By the way, I've had some of my single hose regulators do the same, since for some the diaphragm and the exhaust valve are at different heights; if that diference is greater than the cracking effort for the valve, they also will leak air.

SeaRat