Importance of back kick in Cave Diving?

[kensuf]

It depends. There are many variables when issuing a full cave cert, and some of them are subjective. I rely heavily on the "loved on principle" before I ever issue a cave cert. Here's an example.

I've had a student that had amazing awareness, equipment management, buoyancy, trim, could run a reel like a champ, etc. He had previously taken intro and barely had a frog kick when he finished it, and he spent months practicing to get his frog kick down and had a beautiful frog kick by the time he took full cave. He's an older guy though, and he simply can not do a back kick because of some mechanical issues. I had no qualms about certifying him full cave.

I've also had a student that had great buoyancy, trim, propulsion techniques, could do back kicks in circles all day long, could managed his gear, but lacked awareness of where he was in the cave. He failed.

 

[Beyond_Diving]

So question for Cave instructors ... would you hold back certification at the full-cave level because a diver has not perfected back-kick and horizontal precision? Or would you give them the Full Cave certification so that they may develop this skill after training in real environment?

I would... proper trim, buoyancy and mastering different methods of propulsion are required by standards, so yeah... besides, why would I or any other instructor send someone out into the world without them fully knowing their stuff...

 

[1atm]

Minimum requirement in GUE standards for Cave 1 is:

Comfortably demonstrate at least three propulsion techniques that would be appropriate in delicate and/or silty environments; one of these kicks must be the backward kick.

Maybe a GUE instructor will chime in, but based on the standards, I'd expect the answer to be that you won't get any cave card without a solid backward kick. I agree with this: without solid propulsion skills (along with buoyancy, trim, awareness), you have no place in a cave.

To make it somewhat comparable to other curriculae (such as intro, cavern), the requirement at Fundamentals Tech level is less strict, so there is the understanding that this skill will improve along the journey. Nevertheless, requirement for Fundies Tech is

Demonstrate proficiency in four propulsion techniques that would be appropriate in delicate and/or silty environments, including competence in the backward kick and helicopter turns

 

[Lorenzoid]

Minimum requirement in GUE standards for Cave 1 is:
. . .

There seem to be two schools of thought in cave training: the GUE school that says “no cave training for you unless your buoyancy/trim/propulsion skills are on par with any experienced tech diver’s,” and the other school that says “if your skills are good enough not to pose an immediate danger, we’ll train you to cave dive, and you can hone your skills after that.” Do many non-GUE instructors require a competent back kick as a prerequisite? I get the impression that’s a major point of the poll.

 

[CAPTAIN SINBAD]

There seem to be two schools of thought in cave training: the GUE school that says “no cave training for you unless your buoyancy/trim/propulsion skills are on par with any experienced tech diver’s,” and the other school that says “if your skills are good enough not to pose an immediate danger, we’ll train you to cave dive, and you can hone your skills after that.” Do many non-GUE instructors require a competent back kick as a prerequisite? I get the impression that’s a major point of the poll.

Thanks!

 

[Dominick Gheesling]

It depends. There are many variables when issuing a full cave cert, and some of them are subjective. I rely heavily on the "loved on principle" before I ever issue a cave cert. Here's an example.

I've had a student that had amazing awareness, equipment management, buoyancy, trim, could run a reel like a champ, etc. He had previously taken intro and barely had a frog kick when he finished it, and he spent months practicing to get his frog kick down and had a beautiful frog kick by the time he took full cave. He's an older guy though, and he simply can not do a back kick because of some mechanical issues. I had no qualms about certifying him full cave.

Oh, now it's on!!!

Who said I was finished practicing my Back Kick ?

 

[rjack321]

Do many non-GUE instructors require a competent back kick as a prerequisite?

If the OP would just go to Ginnie or Peacock or Dos Ojos on any weekend he would see that many divers (and presumably their instructors) can't even go forwards competently. So the answer has to be "no" good kicks are not a universal requirement.

 

[PfcAJ]

Such a weird thing to discuss.

People really think it’s ok to go cave diving when you don’t have a way to back up when you get too close to something other than push it with your hands?

And we wonder why caves are beat to hell.

 

[driftwood]

There is a cave in Texas called Jacob's Well. Claimed a couple of diver and free divers over the years. The problem is that there is a false chimney. You can see light, but it narrows very rapidly.

You tell me how important it is to be able to back kick.

 

[beester]

There seem to be two schools of thought in cave training: the GUE school that says “no cave training for you unless your buoyancy/trim/propulsion skills are on par with any experienced tech diver’s,” and the other school that says “if your skills are good enough not to pose an immediate danger, we’ll train you to cave dive, and you can hone your skills after that.” Do many non-GUE instructors require a competent back kick as a prerequisite? I get the impression that’s a major point of the poll.

I would even say... no fundies tech rating without being able to show the above.